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Two days ago I've met this friend of mine, who's been working on a project for the last 1.5 years. He's been living off savings and he's got a couple of months

Two days ago I've met this friend of mine, who's been working on a project for the last 1.5 years. He's been living off savings and he's got a couple of months of money left. The project is not ready yet and even if it were there's the huge question of how it can ever make money, being open source and all. He's been working day and night and he's so obsessed with it and the myriad of complicated technical issues that plague the project. He will not take a weekend off. He doesn't want to rest because he has a lot of work to do. From the looks of it, he'll not make it, but how can I possibly tell him that ? How can I possibly take his dreams and hopes and break them into pieces and hope to still be a friend after that. Sometimes failure is unavoidable, no matter how much people will warn you about it. Failure is something so personal and private that the only way to understand it is to live through it.

akbar501 11y ago
> From the looks of it, he'll not make it, but how can I possibly tell him that ? Don't tell him. Ask questions that get him to think.
- mandeepj 11y ago
  > Don't tell him. Ask questions that get him to think. That is also not easy. Poster's friend might get annoyed\offended when he will not have answers
gizmo 11y ago
Your friend knew that failure was likely when he started on his project, and he went ahead anyway. So it isn't helpful to remind him that the odds are stacked against him, or to tell him "I told you so" after. Many people don't have the heart to even really try. Many people don't have the heart to keep going for years when at times it looks hopeless. Your friend does, and that's admirable. If he's a good programmer he's not going to put his future in jeopardy. There's no need for well-intentioned -- but ultimately patronizing -- concern here. So don't volunteer your opinion. If he's a friend, just be there for him (emotionally).
- codeshaman 11y ago
  Agreed. I've been in that position multiple times and I know that each time I tried to give it all that I could. But it wasn't enough. So I can only speak from my experience. Looking back, it was good technology, with a bit of luck I could have made it. So yeah, even though it looks hopeless, you never know. Life is mysterious and totally improbable things do happen. There's a thin line between the drive to get things done and obsession, sometimes they're the same thing, only the outcome can differentiate between the two.
myth_buster 11y ago
Perhaps making money out of it may not be the goal. However working in isolation for such a long period can result in disconnect. How about asking him to do a limited alpha among a small tech group and getting their feedback?
- dylanjermiah 11y ago
  > he's got a couple of months of money left. He needs money to live.
  - myth_buster 11y ago
    But if his goal in saving the money was to give himself a window where he could just work on something he likes, he has good window ahead. At the end, he may just put it on Github and invite contributions and pick a day job and continue working on it on the side. The project may infact help land a job.
huhtenberg 11y ago
> From the looks of it, he'll not make it, but how can I possibly tell him that? You just should tell him that - "I think this is going nowhere and you will likely burn out and have a crisis." And then when in few weeks/months he will start having doubts, he will have a reference and hopefully it will help him to bury the project faster and move on to other things. At the very least he'll have an option of coming back to you and asking why did you say what you said and you two can go on from there.
jacquesm 11y ago
I have a friend like that too. I'm really happy I stfu when I was tempted to point this out to him because he actually did make it - against all odds - and is a fairly wealthy fellow nowadays. Good for him, and a good lesson for me. In the past I've seen a couple of those 'impossible' stories take off despite my misgivings and I've learned to temper my impulse to tell others what they can't do. Just like I really don't like it when people tell me what I can or can not do. Here's another angle: try to help your friend succeed.
mildbow 11y ago
I wouldn't say anything that isn't also constructive. Keep in mind that most people who succeeded failed again and again. and again. Also, I'm pretty sure he won't fail completely. Why? Because his contributions are open source. That means, unlike a lot of projects you spend a year or two and nothign visible comes out of it, there is visible code and visible effort that can credential him into his next step. I especially like what jacquesm said "Here's another angle: try to help your friend succeed." Now that's the sort of attitude we could all do with more of.
beachstartup 11y ago
if you really want to help, help him sell his product or service. if i had a friend in business trouble this would be the first thing to enter my mind. in fact, it's the first thing that popped into my mind when i read your post. i would give up hours of my day, sacrificing a small amount of input to my own business, to help his make it through the squeeze. i know this because i've done it before in the past. the fact that this hasn't occurred to you tells me you aren't the right type to help/advise him in any circumstance. you want to tell him to give up - well no shit sherlock. pretty much anyone can give him that advice. how valuable is that advice, exactly, when literally anyone can give it? answer: it's exactly worthless. so, since you asked, i say keep your mouth shut and let him win or lose on his own merits. he's not a child, and you're not his dad.
- codeshaman 11y ago
  That was a rhetorical question, which I've answered right in the post. I can't and wouldn't tell him my opinion, especially since I've been there, done that and I know that it won't contribute to anything - he wouldn't stop until dead anyway. In a way it's pretty similar to giving advice to people hopelessly in love with the wrong person. They'll listen, they'll agree and then next day they'll be back after the person who makes them suffer. I am helping him out, with advice and now with some code, but I cannot help him enough, because I've got my own things going, a family, children, etc. But point taken, good advice. thank you.

akbar501 11y ago

> From the looks of it, he'll not make it, but how can I possibly tell him that ? Don't tell him. Ask questions that get him to think.

mandeepj 11y ago
> Don't tell him. Ask questions that get him to think. That is also not easy. Poster's friend might get annoyed\offended when he will not have answers

gizmo 11y ago

Your friend knew that failure was likely when he started on his project, and he went ahead anyway. So it isn't helpful to remind him that the odds are stacked against him, or to tell him "I told you so" after. Many people don't have the heart to even really try. Many people don't have the heart to keep going for years when at times it looks hopeless. Your friend does, and that's admirable. If he's a good programmer he's not going to put his future in jeopardy. There's no need for well-intentioned -- but ultimately patronizing -- concern here. So don't volunteer your opinion. If he's a friend, just be there for him (emotionally).

codeshaman 11y ago
Agreed. I've been in that position multiple times and I know that each time I tried to give it all that I could. But it wasn't enough. So I can only speak from my experience. Looking back, it was good technology, with a bit of luck I could have made it. So yeah, even though it looks hopeless, you never know. Life is mysterious and totally improbable things do happen. There's a thin line between the drive to get things done and obsession, sometimes they're the same thing, only the outcome can differentiate between the two.

myth_buster 11y ago

Perhaps making money out of it may not be the goal. However working in isolation for such a long period can result in disconnect. How about asking him to do a limited alpha among a small tech group and getting their feedback?

dylanjermiah 11y ago
> he's got a couple of months of money left. He needs money to live.
- myth_buster 11y ago
  But if his goal in saving the money was to give himself a window where he could just work on something he likes, he has good window ahead. At the end, he may just put it on Github and invite contributions and pick a day job and continue working on it on the side. The project may infact help land a job.

huhtenberg 11y ago

> From the looks of it, he'll not make it, but how can I possibly tell him that? You just should tell him that - "I think this is going nowhere and you will likely burn out and have a crisis." And then when in few weeks/months he will start having doubts, he will have a reference and hopefully it will help him to bury the project faster and move on to other things. At the very least he'll have an option of coming back to you and asking why did you say what you said and you two can go on from there.

jacquesm 11y ago

I have a friend like that too. I'm really happy I stfu when I was tempted to point this out to him because he actually did make it - against all odds - and is a fairly wealthy fellow nowadays. Good for him, and a good lesson for me. In the past I've seen a couple of those 'impossible' stories take off despite my misgivings and I've learned to temper my impulse to tell others what they can't do. Just like I really don't like it when people tell me what I can or can not do. Here's another angle: try to help your friend succeed.

mildbow 11y ago

I wouldn't say anything that isn't also constructive. Keep in mind that most people who succeeded failed again and again. and again. Also, I'm pretty sure he won't fail completely. Why? Because his contributions are open source. That means, unlike a lot of projects you spend a year or two and nothign visible comes out of it, there is visible code and visible effort that can credential him into his next step. I especially like what jacquesm said "Here's another angle: try to help your friend succeed." Now that's the sort of attitude we could all do with more of.

beachstartup 11y ago

if you really want to help, help him sell his product or service. if i had a friend in business trouble this would be the first thing to enter my mind. in fact, it's the first thing that popped into my mind when i read your post. i would give up hours of my day, sacrificing a small amount of input to my own business, to help his make it through the squeeze. i know this because i've done it before in the past. the fact that this hasn't occurred to you tells me you aren't the right type to help/advise him in any circumstance. you want to tell him to give up - well no shit sherlock. pretty much anyone can give him that advice. how valuable is that advice, exactly, when literally anyone can give it? answer: it's exactly worthless. so, since you asked, i say keep your mouth shut and let him win or lose on his own merits. he's not a child, and you're not his dad.

codeshaman 11y ago
That was a rhetorical question, which I've answered right in the post. I can't and wouldn't tell him my opinion, especially since I've been there, done that and I know that it won't contribute to anything - he wouldn't stop until dead anyway. In a way it's pretty similar to giving advice to people hopelessly in love with the wrong person. They'll listen, they'll agree and then next day they'll be back after the person who makes them suffer. I am helping him out, with advice and now with some code, but I cannot help him enough, because I've got my own things going, a family, children, etc. But point taken, good advice. thank you.