6 ms·

It's absolutelly amazing to see, how MS is evolving. Few more steps like that and I really might consider switching back to Windows and giving WinPhone a try...

pjmlp 11y ago
The WinPhone software stack is quite good.
v0lta 11y ago
I did some basic WinPhone development (i'm mostly on linux/unix) and was pleasantly surprised by the smoothness of the tools. I recommend to check it out by building some simple stuff.
skrowl 11y ago
What exactly can you do from your (presumably since it's HN) Mac that you can't do from Windows that's preventing you from switching now?
- zeendo 11y ago
  Probably iOS development?
  - miguelrochefort 11y ago
    I've been doing iOS development on a PC for years.
- eropple 11y ago
  Not the OP, but for me: use Unix. Cygwin is not a sufficient alternative to having an actual, working Unix that works as I expect it to when I use it, with a decent terminal emulator on top of it. (PowerShell is both non-substitutable and inferior.) Windows-the-desktop is fine, though I don't like it. Windows-the-workstation is, even with the plus that is Visual Studio, still a considerable distance behind even Linux, to say nothing of OS X.
  - pjmlp 11y ago
    > Visual Studio, still a considerable distance behind even Linux, to say nothing of OS X. Which wonderful Linux and OS X tools offer the debugging and profiling capabilities of Visual Studio, specially for multi-threaded code? Which wonderful Linux and OS X tools offer code navigation across large scale enterprise projects and architecture design? Which wonderful Linux and OS X tools offer UI tooling like XAML and Blend?
    - ska 11y ago
      Your selective quoting is misleading. The post said: "...even with the plus that is Visual Studio,... " And you're touting things you value in VS. I think that he poster was saying that for them the good parts of VS don't make up for other shortcomings of windows as a workstation...
      - eropple 11y ago
        Precisely. I've been seeing a lot of this mendacious quoting lately, what's with this fad?
      - pjmlp 11y ago
        I find that Windows is closer to the Xerox PARC workstation model than UNIX will ever be.
        rbanffy 11y ago
        Only if you mean "doesn't play well with the other kids". I have studied the Alto and Star and I can't imagine why you would think they are similar to Windows except in their insularity.
        pjmlp 11y ago
        Poweshell playing the same role as the workspace/transcript, which access to the whole system, including libraries and running applications. Specially given it is just yet another .NET programming language. I am not aware of any UNIX shell that offers a REPL like capability by allowing to interact with system libraries, do IPC with existing applications or system devices. .NET, COM and WinRT play a similar role as the rich programming frameworks Interlisp-D, Smallatalk and Cedar had. Focus on a mixture of AOT and JIT code for the programming environments, with memory safe languages. Memory unsafe languages currently used on the lower levels and performance hotspots. An IDE with graphical debuggers and incremental development support, as the main way to develop applications. Focus on being a good workstation OS first, with server abilities as second focus.
- robertodelori 11y ago
  I'm Rails developer - so this all comes to mentioned Unix and set of console tools. Ok, there are workarounds, one can use docker, vagrant, or whatever. I like to work in console as well - and as for now, this is a deal breaker for me.
e40 11y ago
I like how management is going, but as someone who fled Windows 8 to Mac OS X (10.9), I couldn't disagree more. I feel like a huge thorn has been removed from my foot and I can now walk normally, after a couple of decades of limping. Of course, I used Cygwin to make Windows seem more like Linux (what I use for server stuff at home and work). Mac OS X for a desktop is still far better than Windows. Given the direction of MS, I'm hopeful that they'll do some real change under the UI hood of Windows, making it a real alternative to Mac OS X. Some of the apps I need to run (e.g., Lightroom) only work on Windows and Mac.

pjmlp 11y ago

The WinPhone software stack is quite good.

v0lta 11y ago

I did some basic WinPhone development (i'm mostly on linux/unix) and was pleasantly surprised by the smoothness of the tools. I recommend to check it out by building some simple stuff.

skrowl 11y ago

What exactly can you do from your (presumably since it's HN) Mac that you can't do from Windows that's preventing you from switching now?

zeendo 11y ago
Probably iOS development?
- miguelrochefort 11y ago
  I've been doing iOS development on a PC for years.
eropple 11y ago
Not the OP, but for me: use Unix. Cygwin is not a sufficient alternative to having an actual, working Unix that works as I expect it to when I use it, with a decent terminal emulator on top of it. (PowerShell is both non-substitutable and inferior.) Windows-the-desktop is fine, though I don't like it. Windows-the-workstation is, even with the plus that is Visual Studio, still a considerable distance behind even Linux, to say nothing of OS X.
- pjmlp 11y ago
  > Visual Studio, still a considerable distance behind even Linux, to say nothing of OS X. Which wonderful Linux and OS X tools offer the debugging and profiling capabilities of Visual Studio, specially for multi-threaded code? Which wonderful Linux and OS X tools offer code navigation across large scale enterprise projects and architecture design? Which wonderful Linux and OS X tools offer UI tooling like XAML and Blend?
  - ska 11y ago
    Your selective quoting is misleading. The post said: "...even with the plus that is Visual Studio,... " And you're touting things you value in VS. I think that he poster was saying that for them the good parts of VS don't make up for other shortcomings of windows as a workstation...
    - eropple 11y ago
      Precisely. I've been seeing a lot of this mendacious quoting lately, what's with this fad?
    - pjmlp 11y ago
      I find that Windows is closer to the Xerox PARC workstation model than UNIX will ever be.
      - rbanffy 11y ago
        Only if you mean "doesn't play well with the other kids". I have studied the Alto and Star and I can't imagine why you would think they are similar to Windows except in their insularity.
        pjmlp 11y ago
        Poweshell playing the same role as the workspace/transcript, which access to the whole system, including libraries and running applications. Specially given it is just yet another .NET programming language. I am not aware of any UNIX shell that offers a REPL like capability by allowing to interact with system libraries, do IPC with existing applications or system devices. .NET, COM and WinRT play a similar role as the rich programming frameworks Interlisp-D, Smallatalk and Cedar had. Focus on a mixture of AOT and JIT code for the programming environments, with memory safe languages. Memory unsafe languages currently used on the lower levels and performance hotspots. An IDE with graphical debuggers and incremental development support, as the main way to develop applications. Focus on being a good workstation OS first, with server abilities as second focus.
robertodelori 11y ago
I'm Rails developer - so this all comes to mentioned Unix and set of console tools. Ok, there are workarounds, one can use docker, vagrant, or whatever. I like to work in console as well - and as for now, this is a deal breaker for me.

e40 11y ago

I like how management is going, but as someone who fled Windows 8 to Mac OS X (10.9), I couldn't disagree more. I feel like a huge thorn has been removed from my foot and I can now walk normally, after a couple of decades of limping. Of course, I used Cygwin to make Windows seem more like Linux (what I use for server stuff at home and work). Mac OS X for a desktop is still far better than Windows. Given the direction of MS, I'm hopeful that they'll do some real change under the UI hood of Windows, making it a real alternative to Mac OS X. Some of the apps I need to run (e.g., Lightroom) only work on Windows and Mac.