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Yes, let's forget about all the nightclubs I couldn't go into, being physically barred by guards outside holding their crossed arms, saying "gaijin dame!". Let

Yes, let's forget about all the nightclubs I couldn't go into, being physically barred by guards outside holding their crossed arms, saying "gaijin dame!". Let's forget about the complete lack of upward mobility in any office I worked in. Let's forget about the neighbors who completely shunned me until it was my turn as the block representative, at which point they criticized my lack of understanding of the bureaucracy. Let's forget about the countless times people would cross to the other side of the street as soon as they saw me coming. I just thanked my lucky stars that I wasn't Brazilian. They have it the worst. Now, I had lots of nice experiences there, especially in the countryside where people are a lot friendlier, but by no means can you say that racism does not permeate their entire society.

astrobe_ 11y ago
Racism of xenophobia? Do you know why they behave this way? I this because they think they are superior, or because they believe that no good can come from aliens? Or because the way they generally behave is embarrassing and unpleasant to them?
- kstenerud 11y ago
  It's actually fairly similar to the racism I noticed when I moved to America, although in the USA, in many ways it's more subtle (it would be rare indeed to see someone physically block entrance to a business saying "no blacks allowed!"). Although in Japan, they don't use their police force to repress other groups like here (at least, not that I noticed). I'm of the opinion that it's a mix of various insecurities, fear of displacement (in terms of power), and stereotypes based on past high-profile interactions that have percolated through the local culture. For example, there is a segment of expats in Japan who, being largely transient, pay no heed to their impact on the local culture, and in more extreme cases, take to actively antagonizing them (trolling or bullying in various forms). I would expect episodes like this to stick more firmly in the local memory than the myriad well-behaved individuals. That's not to say that I rule out the possibility of a fragile ego and a desire to feel superior. Those tend to go hand-in-hand with any form of tribalism.
Nadya 11y ago
Strange how much our experiences differ. People in the countryside were far more 'racist' to me. I went to parts of the country where they rarely, if ever, see an 'outsider'. I would be stared at by wide-eyed children and shocked elders alike. I would be pointed at and noticed because I was different. In the city, I experienced none of this. I put 'racist' in quotes because, although I felt like an attraction, it wasn't a bad or biased opinion of me. It was simply "That's a rare sight! Look over there, a foreigner!" "Gaijin" don't tend to know social norms. That's a fact. Some do, most don't. It's easier to ban them all then have to kick out 95% of them. They cause problems because of said lack of knowledge of social norms. Why deal with problems? It might lose you customers. It's much easier to ban any and all foreigners. Same reason you can't go to many bathhouses if you have a tattoo. Having a tattoo is seen as being part of the Yakuza and Yakuza are nothing but trouble. So instead of kicking out Yakuza, they don't allow people with tattoos. Are you Yakuza because you have a tattoo? Of course not. It's just easier to ban tattoos preemptively to prevent problems.
- kstenerud 11y ago
  Yeah, my experience was similar in the countryside. But I don't consider being regarded as a curiosity as racism. They had no real preconceived notions as to how I would behave, and so our interactions were always cordial (though it helped that I was familiar with Japanese customs). I'd get invited to the local izakaya and we'd have a grand old time shooting the shit over sports, politics, etc. They'd want to know what I thought about pretty much everything (as would be expected when someone from an area you'd never seen before comes to town).
  - Nadya 11y ago
    If your Japanese is near-perfect you can tell them to let you enter the "no foreigners" nightclubs and bars claiming you were born and raised in Japan. Just pick a place as your hometown. If it were for racist reasons, they wouldn't let you enter simply because you don't "look Japanese". Not to say the issue doesn't exist at all. Just that it isn't prevalent. If it didn't exist, there wouldn't be this comedy sketch about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLt5qSm9U80 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLt5qSm9U80 Although the scenario I experienced was that the waitress asked my Japanese friend what I wanted to order rather than asking me. Assuming I didn't speak Japanese. At most places I ordered food at - they would ask me what I wanted directly. So I wouldn't say it's a common experience either. Just that it does happen and it's because few foreigners speak Japanese! It's a habitual thing, not a racist thing. It happened more in the touristy parts of Tokyo than anywhere else (even in the touristy parts of Kyoto!)
nandemo 11y ago
There's definitely xenophobia in Japan, and a lot of stereotyping, etc, and I'm not dismissing your experience, but: I've never been denied entry to a nightclub or any decent establishment (kyabakuras don't count). I've never noticed people crossing to the other side of the street because of me. > I just thanked my lucky stars that I wasn't Brazilian. I've heard that before but I've never experienced it. I'm Brazilian, but since I don't usually go around wearing Brazil's football jersey, I might as well be Indian to a Japanese passersby. When people learn I'm Brazilian, the reaction typically ranges from positive to neutral (even when discounting for the tatemae). I suppose things are different in areas with high concentration of Brazilians. But even in those places I'm pretty sure we aren't nearly as despised as certain 2 Asian nationalities, or even as much as American military. In any case, I've witnessed and experienced way more racism in my own country than in Japan.
XzetaU8 11y ago
Debito Arudou, is that you?

astrobe_ 11y ago

Racism of xenophobia? Do you know why they behave this way? I this because they think they are superior, or because they believe that no good can come from aliens? Or because the way they generally behave is embarrassing and unpleasant to them?

kstenerud 11y ago
It's actually fairly similar to the racism I noticed when I moved to America, although in the USA, in many ways it's more subtle (it would be rare indeed to see someone physically block entrance to a business saying "no blacks allowed!"). Although in Japan, they don't use their police force to repress other groups like here (at least, not that I noticed). I'm of the opinion that it's a mix of various insecurities, fear of displacement (in terms of power), and stereotypes based on past high-profile interactions that have percolated through the local culture. For example, there is a segment of expats in Japan who, being largely transient, pay no heed to their impact on the local culture, and in more extreme cases, take to actively antagonizing them (trolling or bullying in various forms). I would expect episodes like this to stick more firmly in the local memory than the myriad well-behaved individuals. That's not to say that I rule out the possibility of a fragile ego and a desire to feel superior. Those tend to go hand-in-hand with any form of tribalism.

Nadya 11y ago

Strange how much our experiences differ. People in the countryside were far more 'racist' to me. I went to parts of the country where they rarely, if ever, see an 'outsider'. I would be stared at by wide-eyed children and shocked elders alike. I would be pointed at and noticed because I was different. In the city, I experienced none of this. I put 'racist' in quotes because, although I felt like an attraction, it wasn't a bad or biased opinion of me. It was simply "That's a rare sight! Look over there, a foreigner!" "Gaijin" don't tend to know social norms. That's a fact. Some do, most don't. It's easier to ban them all then have to kick out 95% of them. They cause problems because of said lack of knowledge of social norms. Why deal with problems? It might lose you customers. It's much easier to ban any and all foreigners. Same reason you can't go to many bathhouses if you have a tattoo. Having a tattoo is seen as being part of the Yakuza and Yakuza are nothing but trouble. So instead of kicking out Yakuza, they don't allow people with tattoos. Are you Yakuza because you have a tattoo? Of course not. It's just easier to ban tattoos preemptively to prevent problems.

kstenerud 11y ago
Yeah, my experience was similar in the countryside. But I don't consider being regarded as a curiosity as racism. They had no real preconceived notions as to how I would behave, and so our interactions were always cordial (though it helped that I was familiar with Japanese customs). I'd get invited to the local izakaya and we'd have a grand old time shooting the shit over sports, politics, etc. They'd want to know what I thought about pretty much everything (as would be expected when someone from an area you'd never seen before comes to town).
- Nadya 11y ago
  If your Japanese is near-perfect you can tell them to let you enter the "no foreigners" nightclubs and bars claiming you were born and raised in Japan. Just pick a place as your hometown. If it were for racist reasons, they wouldn't let you enter simply because you don't "look Japanese". Not to say the issue doesn't exist at all. Just that it isn't prevalent. If it didn't exist, there wouldn't be this comedy sketch about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLt5qSm9U80 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLt5qSm9U80 Although the scenario I experienced was that the waitress asked my Japanese friend what I wanted to order rather than asking me. Assuming I didn't speak Japanese. At most places I ordered food at - they would ask me what I wanted directly. So I wouldn't say it's a common experience either. Just that it does happen and it's because few foreigners speak Japanese! It's a habitual thing, not a racist thing. It happened more in the touristy parts of Tokyo than anywhere else (even in the touristy parts of Kyoto!)

nandemo 11y ago

There's definitely xenophobia in Japan, and a lot of stereotyping, etc, and I'm not dismissing your experience, but: I've never been denied entry to a nightclub or any decent establishment (kyabakuras don't count). I've never noticed people crossing to the other side of the street because of me. > I just thanked my lucky stars that I wasn't Brazilian. I've heard that before but I've never experienced it. I'm Brazilian, but since I don't usually go around wearing Brazil's football jersey, I might as well be Indian to a Japanese passersby. When people learn I'm Brazilian, the reaction typically ranges from positive to neutral (even when discounting for the tatemae). I suppose things are different in areas with high concentration of Brazilians. But even in those places I'm pretty sure we aren't nearly as despised as certain 2 Asian nationalities, or even as much as American military. In any case, I've witnessed and experienced way more racism in my own country than in Japan.

XzetaU8 11y ago

Debito Arudou, is that you?