6 ms·

There are a few things to keep in mind: 1) Ariana Miyamoto was chosen as Miss Japan by Japanese people. 2) The critics of Miyamoto are an extreme, vocal minor

by hudstew 11y ago

There are a few things to keep in mind: 1) Ariana Miyamoto was chosen as Miss Japan by Japanese people. 2) The critics of Miyamoto are an extreme, vocal minority on Twitter and 2chan. 3) Although Japanese contestants often perform well at the international level, beauty pageants of this sort do not receive much attention within the country regardless of the contestant. 4) "Hafu" is a Japanese word derived from the English "half". It is used to refer to biracial people, but there is no connotation that they are "half" a person. I cannot understand the logic of the author who says that the word sounds derogatory in English -- it's a Japanese word, after all, and is not derogatory in Japanese. The author uses point (2) as well as his short personal experience in Japan to make broad statements to the effect that Japanese people in general do not accept those whose appearance differs from their own. Japan makes an easy target in this regard because of the well-known (outside Japan, at least) concept of Nihonjinron, as well as the persisting sense that Japan is an isolated country where outsiders will never be accepted into the "in group". Due to this, there is an expectation (particularly in foreign media) that Japanese are racist, and any proof, even that of an extreme minority on Twitter, is taken as evidence in support of this. Of course, living in Japan, I remember hearing similar broad statements about racism in the United States concerning the backlash against electing a black president in 2008. The real lesson here is that we should not be basing our impressions of an entire society on a vocal minority, no matter how much their opinions conform to our expectations.

amirmc 11y ago
On point 4, I'd wonder that it's because the author is British. There's a whole nervousness about referring to anyone using race as a differentiator (lest you be considered racist?). To the point where someone will describe someone else by imaginative means even when 'the black guy with glasses' would actually be the most succinct way.
kstenerud 11y ago
Yes, let's forget about all the nightclubs I couldn't go into, being physically barred by guards outside holding their crossed arms, saying "gaijin dame!". Let's forget about the complete lack of upward mobility in any office I worked in. Let's forget about the neighbors who completely shunned me until it was my turn as the block representative, at which point they criticized my lack of understanding of the bureaucracy. Let's forget about the countless times people would cross to the other side of the street as soon as they saw me coming. I just thanked my lucky stars that I wasn't Brazilian. They have it the worst. Now, I had lots of nice experiences there, especially in the countryside where people are a lot friendlier, but by no means can you say that racism does not permeate their entire society.
- astrobe_ 11y ago
  Racism of xenophobia? Do you know why they behave this way? I this because they think they are superior, or because they believe that no good can come from aliens? Or because the way they generally behave is embarrassing and unpleasant to them?
  - kstenerud 11y ago
    It's actually fairly similar to the racism I noticed when I moved to America, although in the USA, in many ways it's more subtle (it would be rare indeed to see someone physically block entrance to a business saying "no blacks allowed!"). Although in Japan, they don't use their police force to repress other groups like here (at least, not that I noticed). I'm of the opinion that it's a mix of various insecurities, fear of displacement (in terms of power), and stereotypes based on past high-profile interactions that have percolated through the local culture. For example, there is a segment of expats in Japan who, being largely transient, pay no heed to their impact on the local culture, and in more extreme cases, take to actively antagonizing them (trolling or bullying in various forms). I would expect episodes like this to stick more firmly in the local memory than the myriad well-behaved individuals. That's not to say that I rule out the possibility of a fragile ego and a desire to feel superior. Those tend to go hand-in-hand with any form of tribalism.
- Nadya 11y ago
  Strange how much our experiences differ. People in the countryside were far more 'racist' to me. I went to parts of the country where they rarely, if ever, see an 'outsider'. I would be stared at by wide-eyed children and shocked elders alike. I would be pointed at and noticed because I was different. In the city, I experienced none of this. I put 'racist' in quotes because, although I felt like an attraction, it wasn't a bad or biased opinion of me. It was simply "That's a rare sight! Look over there, a foreigner!" "Gaijin" don't tend to know social norms. That's a fact. Some do, most don't. It's easier to ban them all then have to kick out 95% of them. They cause problems because of said lack of knowledge of social norms. Why deal with problems? It might lose you customers. It's much easier to ban any and all foreigners. Same reason you can't go to many bathhouses if you have a tattoo. Having a tattoo is seen as being part of the Yakuza and Yakuza are nothing but trouble. So instead of kicking out Yakuza, they don't allow people with tattoos. Are you Yakuza because you have a tattoo? Of course not. It's just easier to ban tattoos preemptively to prevent problems.
byuu 11y ago
> it's a Japanese word, after all, and is not derogatory in Japanese That reminds me of 外人 (gaijin). Many will argue it's not a negative word, but when you hear people say it, it's almost never said in a very friendly, inclusive sort of way. It reminds me of the way white people in their 80s and 90s will use the word 'nigger', and the expectation is "that's just what everyone called them back then, it wasn't racist." And you know, some of the time it may well not have been. But it was always meant as a way of saying, "not one of us." Now sure, as a literal fact, this person is half Japanese, and this is the word to express that. But what's more important, is when and why is it being brought up? It shouldn't matter, and there should be very few times in life when you need to say or ask it. These sorts of things seem inevitable when you have such an overwhelmingly homogenous society (99% native, and most of the remaining 1% still Asian.) I'm not quite as hopeful as the author that this is going to change any time soon there.
- kazinator 11y ago
  外人 has a derogatory nuance, because it's curt (therefore not polite) way to say something which has more polite forms, such as 外国の方 (gaikoku no kata) which is a respectful way to refer to a non-Japanese person or people. Depending on context, of course. In some contexts and situations, there is no respectful way to point out someone's nationality, such as when it is completely unnecessary and irrelevant.
orthoganol 11y ago
Yes, don't base it on the 'vocal minority', rather base it on the everyday experiences of Gaijins living in Japan: It's an extremely racist, xenophobic society, on a tier higher than the United States. Racism is deeply integrated into the average man's world view in ways that it is not in 21st century America. TBH it's not that different from Korea or China in general, countries I've also lived in. Those 3 nations (ones I can speak for at least) are homogenous, not "nations of immigrants," they haven't had turf wars for minorities, civil rights & political correctness movements. Just the casual daily encounters experienced there as someone who is trying to live there (not someone who is clearly a tourist), would completely baffle any politically liberal, tolerant American.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    But not sufficiently to have significant genetic variation. So while technically true in some sense, not pertinent right?
- jrs99 11y ago
  Are you also a minority in the US? Did you live in different areas in the US? Were you physically attacked because of your race or sexual orientation in Japan? Because if you're going by "casual daily encounters" that seem racist to you, do you ever wonder if a minority in 21st century america experiences the same?
  - yuncun 11y ago
    I'm Chinese, I live in Kentucky. People are wonderful here. I've also lived in Los Angeles - never had a problem, but I did meet lots of second+ generation immigrants who complained a lot about perceived racism, that were really just small things that come with cultural differences. To be honest I find that white Americans are mostly much more self conscious about saying something offensive than Asians would be. Maybe I have to go further south, or be more homosexual or something, but I haven't experienced the hardcore racism you're describing.
MtrL 11y ago
I'd imagine the word sounds derogatory to the author as the term half-caste in the UK has the same meaning and has come to be viewed by some (or many, I'm not certain) as a derogatory word.
scottlocklin 11y ago
"1) Ariana Miyamoto was chosen as Miss Japan by Japanese people." No, Ariana Miyamoto was chosen as "Miss Universe Japan" by a fashion company called HDR Japan. http://www.missuniversejapan3.com/about-us/ http://www.missuniversejapan3.com/about-us/ Nobody in Japan has ever heard of this.

by hudstew 11y ago

amirmc 11y ago

On point 4, I'd wonder that it's because the author is British. There's a whole nervousness about referring to anyone using race as a differentiator (lest you be considered racist?). To the point where someone will describe someone else by imaginative means even when 'the black guy with glasses' would actually be the most succinct way.

kstenerud 11y ago

Yes, let's forget about all the nightclubs I couldn't go into, being physically barred by guards outside holding their crossed arms, saying "gaijin dame!". Let's forget about the complete lack of upward mobility in any office I worked in. Let's forget about the neighbors who completely shunned me until it was my turn as the block representative, at which point they criticized my lack of understanding of the bureaucracy. Let's forget about the countless times people would cross to the other side of the street as soon as they saw me coming. I just thanked my lucky stars that I wasn't Brazilian. They have it the worst. Now, I had lots of nice experiences there, especially in the countryside where people are a lot friendlier, but by no means can you say that racism does not permeate their entire society.

astrobe_ 11y ago
Racism of xenophobia? Do you know why they behave this way? I this because they think they are superior, or because they believe that no good can come from aliens? Or because the way they generally behave is embarrassing and unpleasant to them?
- kstenerud 11y ago
  It's actually fairly similar to the racism I noticed when I moved to America, although in the USA, in many ways it's more subtle (it would be rare indeed to see someone physically block entrance to a business saying "no blacks allowed!"). Although in Japan, they don't use their police force to repress other groups like here (at least, not that I noticed). I'm of the opinion that it's a mix of various insecurities, fear of displacement (in terms of power), and stereotypes based on past high-profile interactions that have percolated through the local culture. For example, there is a segment of expats in Japan who, being largely transient, pay no heed to their impact on the local culture, and in more extreme cases, take to actively antagonizing them (trolling or bullying in various forms). I would expect episodes like this to stick more firmly in the local memory than the myriad well-behaved individuals. That's not to say that I rule out the possibility of a fragile ego and a desire to feel superior. Those tend to go hand-in-hand with any form of tribalism.
Nadya 11y ago
Strange how much our experiences differ. People in the countryside were far more 'racist' to me. I went to parts of the country where they rarely, if ever, see an 'outsider'. I would be stared at by wide-eyed children and shocked elders alike. I would be pointed at and noticed because I was different. In the city, I experienced none of this. I put 'racist' in quotes because, although I felt like an attraction, it wasn't a bad or biased opinion of me. It was simply "That's a rare sight! Look over there, a foreigner!" "Gaijin" don't tend to know social norms. That's a fact. Some do, most don't. It's easier to ban them all then have to kick out 95% of them. They cause problems because of said lack of knowledge of social norms. Why deal with problems? It might lose you customers. It's much easier to ban any and all foreigners. Same reason you can't go to many bathhouses if you have a tattoo. Having a tattoo is seen as being part of the Yakuza and Yakuza are nothing but trouble. So instead of kicking out Yakuza, they don't allow people with tattoos. Are you Yakuza because you have a tattoo? Of course not. It's just easier to ban tattoos preemptively to prevent problems.

byuu 11y ago

> it's a Japanese word, after all, and is not derogatory in Japanese That reminds me of 外人 (gaijin). Many will argue it's not a negative word, but when you hear people say it, it's almost never said in a very friendly, inclusive sort of way. It reminds me of the way white people in their 80s and 90s will use the word 'nigger', and the expectation is "that's just what everyone called them back then, it wasn't racist." And you know, some of the time it may well not have been. But it was always meant as a way of saying, "not one of us." Now sure, as a literal fact, this person is half Japanese, and this is the word to express that. But what's more important, is when and why is it being brought up? It shouldn't matter, and there should be very few times in life when you need to say or ask it. These sorts of things seem inevitable when you have such an overwhelmingly homogenous society (99% native, and most of the remaining 1% still Asian.) I'm not quite as hopeful as the author that this is going to change any time soon there.

kazinator 11y ago
外人 has a derogatory nuance, because it's curt (therefore not polite) way to say something which has more polite forms, such as 外国の方 (gaikoku no kata) which is a respectful way to refer to a non-Japanese person or people. Depending on context, of course. In some contexts and situations, there is no respectful way to point out someone's nationality, such as when it is completely unnecessary and irrelevant.

orthoganol 11y ago

Yes, don't base it on the 'vocal minority', rather base it on the everyday experiences of Gaijins living in Japan: It's an extremely racist, xenophobic society, on a tier higher than the United States. Racism is deeply integrated into the average man's world view in ways that it is not in 21st century America. TBH it's not that different from Korea or China in general, countries I've also lived in. Those 3 nations (ones I can speak for at least) are homogenous, not "nations of immigrants," they haven't had turf wars for minorities, civil rights & political correctness movements. Just the casual daily encounters experienced there as someone who is trying to live there (not someone who is clearly a tourist), would completely baffle any politically liberal, tolerant American.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  But not sufficiently to have significant genetic variation. So while technically true in some sense, not pertinent right?
jrs99 11y ago
Are you also a minority in the US? Did you live in different areas in the US? Were you physically attacked because of your race or sexual orientation in Japan? Because if you're going by "casual daily encounters" that seem racist to you, do you ever wonder if a minority in 21st century america experiences the same?
- yuncun 11y ago
  I'm Chinese, I live in Kentucky. People are wonderful here. I've also lived in Los Angeles - never had a problem, but I did meet lots of second+ generation immigrants who complained a lot about perceived racism, that were really just small things that come with cultural differences. To be honest I find that white Americans are mostly much more self conscious about saying something offensive than Asians would be. Maybe I have to go further south, or be more homosexual or something, but I haven't experienced the hardcore racism you're describing.

MtrL 11y ago

I'd imagine the word sounds derogatory to the author as the term half-caste in the UK has the same meaning and has come to be viewed by some (or many, I'm not certain) as a derogatory word.

scottlocklin 11y ago

"1) Ariana Miyamoto was chosen as Miss Japan by Japanese people." No, Ariana Miyamoto was chosen as "Miss Universe Japan" by a fashion company called HDR Japan. http://www.missuniversejapan3.com/about-us/ http://www.missuniversejapan3.com/about-us/ Nobody in Japan has ever heard of this.