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Apple Pay is literally a win for everyone * Customers have an easier, securer way to pay than chip & PIN (swipe only will be phased out as it has in Europe) *

by coob 11y ago

Apple Pay is literally a win for everyone * Customers have an easier, securer way to pay than chip & PIN (swipe only will be phased out as it has in Europe) * VISA/MC/AMEX get a reduction in transaction fraud due to device-linkage (combined with biometrics). * Retailers can process transactions quicker without them costing more.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago
My sister, a retailer, didn't see it that way. It cost her something. Her normal (coffee-shop) transaction is cash. This scheme is a big loss for her.
- aggie 11y ago
  Why would people not use plastic currently and now adopt Apple Pay?
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    Its another gadget and training and relationship with another billing entity and register programming and ....
    - ska 11y ago
      Why would any of that be different? As I understood it, from the point of view of the retailer it's no different than a (contactless) card. So sure, she might have to update her POS, but is going to have to do that anyway. So no different gadget, no different training, maybe another processer but maybe what she's already using? What am I missing?
      - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        She most certainly doesn't have to update her POS. She can sit tight, accept cash and cards and do fine.
        ska 11y ago
        My understanding was the chip and pin / EMV is coming for all merchants in the US pretty soon, regardless of what they think of it. If your forced into making that change, supporting apple pay isn't anything much additional. Of course I could be wrong about that.
- madeofpalk 11y ago
  Remember, handling cash has costs associated with it as well. They're just not as direct as credit card processing fees.
  - ticksoft 11y ago
    Cash also offers a level of freedom not offered by electronic payments, something that I think our future selves will learn to appreciate.
- jinushaun 11y ago
  Grrr! Cash only retailers! You don't get my money.
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    Didn't say that. She takes plastic too.
    - madeofpalk 11y ago
      How would Apple Pay be a big loss for her then? From her perspective it's no different to regular debit/credit cards
      - MadManE 11y ago
        Because cash can be lost in the shuffle, and there is not necessarily a hard record of it ever existing. If everything is on the level, then there's no loss.
    - ceejayoz 11y ago
      Why would it be a loss, then? People using Apple Pay were probably paying with a card previously, not cash. Transaction fees remain the same, POS remains the same if it already supported RFID cards, interface remains the same.
      - coob 11y ago
        Tips, presumably. I didn't consider tipping culture. A scourge.
  - coldpie 11y ago
    Sad that you insist on paying a 3% tithe to the payment processor companies instead of bothering to carry a few pieces of paper around. This hurts your local, small businesses.
    - MadManE 11y ago
venomsnake 11y ago
If it is apple product it is loss loss for everyone but apple.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- WorldWideWayne 11y ago
  I honestly hope Apple spends all of their money on failing business ventures and then slithers back into relative unpopularity.
JohnTHaller 11y ago
Retailers lose the ability to track customer behavior and create purchasing models based on credit card number. Fraud has gone up.
- a_c_s 11y ago
  Source for the claim that fraud has increased?
  - chaz72 11y ago
    Don't have a citation handy but I have read that some banks would authorize cards for Apple Pay without any decent authentication. So thieves that had stolen credit card numbers elsewhere registered those cards on their Apple Pay devices and then used those to charge them. The credit card numbers had already been stolen, but Apple Pay was used to buy things on those accounts. There is not - that I have ever seen - any indication that Apple Pay has been hacked. The real fight here is not about Apple at all. It's about banks (who want a new secure standard) vs merchants (who want to maintain their tracking abilities and maybe get out from under the 2% fees).
  - JohnTHaller 11y ago
    "An industry consultant, Cherian Abraham, put the fraud rate at 6 percent, compared with a traditional credit card fraud rate that is relatively minuscule, 10 cents for every $100 spent. Mr. Abraham wrote in a blog post, one of the first to spotlight the issue, that the Apple Pay fraud “is growing like a weed, and the bank is unable to tell friend from foe. No one is bold enough to call the emperor naked.”" "The vulnerability in Apple Pay is in the way that it — and card issuers — “onboard” new credit cards into the system. Because Apple wanted its system to have the simplicity for which it has become famous and wanted to make the sign-up process “frictionless,” the company required little beyond basic credit card information about a user. Nor did it provide much information to the banks, like full phone numbers and addresses, that might help them detect fraud early." http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/17/business/banks-find-fraud-abounds-in-apple-pay.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/17/business/banks-find-fraud-... Neither Apple nor banks will release official fraud numbers for Apple Pay despite repeated requests.

by coob 11y ago

JoeAltmaier 11y ago

My sister, a retailer, didn't see it that way. It cost her something. Her normal (coffee-shop) transaction is cash. This scheme is a big loss for her.

aggie 11y ago
Why would people not use plastic currently and now adopt Apple Pay?
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  Its another gadget and training and relationship with another billing entity and register programming and ....
  - ska 11y ago
    Why would any of that be different? As I understood it, from the point of view of the retailer it's no different than a (contactless) card. So sure, she might have to update her POS, but is going to have to do that anyway. So no different gadget, no different training, maybe another processer but maybe what she's already using? What am I missing?
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      She most certainly doesn't have to update her POS. She can sit tight, accept cash and cards and do fine.
      - ska 11y ago
        My understanding was the chip and pin / EMV is coming for all merchants in the US pretty soon, regardless of what they think of it. If your forced into making that change, supporting apple pay isn't anything much additional. Of course I could be wrong about that.
madeofpalk 11y ago
Remember, handling cash has costs associated with it as well. They're just not as direct as credit card processing fees.
- ticksoft 11y ago
  Cash also offers a level of freedom not offered by electronic payments, something that I think our future selves will learn to appreciate.
jinushaun 11y ago
Grrr! Cash only retailers! You don't get my money.
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  Didn't say that. She takes plastic too.
  - madeofpalk 11y ago
    How would Apple Pay be a big loss for her then? From her perspective it's no different to regular debit/credit cards
    - MadManE 11y ago
      Because cash can be lost in the shuffle, and there is not necessarily a hard record of it ever existing. If everything is on the level, then there's no loss.
  - ceejayoz 11y ago
    Why would it be a loss, then? People using Apple Pay were probably paying with a card previously, not cash. Transaction fees remain the same, POS remains the same if it already supported RFID cards, interface remains the same.
    - coob 11y ago
      Tips, presumably. I didn't consider tipping culture. A scourge.
- coldpie 11y ago
  Sad that you insist on paying a 3% tithe to the payment processor companies instead of bothering to carry a few pieces of paper around. This hurts your local, small businesses.
  - MadManE 11y ago

venomsnake 11y ago

If it is apple product it is loss loss for everyone but apple.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
WorldWideWayne 11y ago
I honestly hope Apple spends all of their money on failing business ventures and then slithers back into relative unpopularity.

JohnTHaller 11y ago

Retailers lose the ability to track customer behavior and create purchasing models based on credit card number. Fraud has gone up.

a_c_s 11y ago
Source for the claim that fraud has increased?
- chaz72 11y ago
  Don't have a citation handy but I have read that some banks would authorize cards for Apple Pay without any decent authentication. So thieves that had stolen credit card numbers elsewhere registered those cards on their Apple Pay devices and then used those to charge them. The credit card numbers had already been stolen, but Apple Pay was used to buy things on those accounts. There is not - that I have ever seen - any indication that Apple Pay has been hacked. The real fight here is not about Apple at all. It's about banks (who want a new secure standard) vs merchants (who want to maintain their tracking abilities and maybe get out from under the 2% fees).
- JohnTHaller 11y ago
  "An industry consultant, Cherian Abraham, put the fraud rate at 6 percent, compared with a traditional credit card fraud rate that is relatively minuscule, 10 cents for every $100 spent. Mr. Abraham wrote in a blog post, one of the first to spotlight the issue, that the Apple Pay fraud “is growing like a weed, and the bank is unable to tell friend from foe. No one is bold enough to call the emperor naked.”" "The vulnerability in Apple Pay is in the way that it — and card issuers — “onboard” new credit cards into the system. Because Apple wanted its system to have the simplicity for which it has become famous and wanted to make the sign-up process “frictionless,” the company required little beyond basic credit card information about a user. Nor did it provide much information to the banks, like full phone numbers and addresses, that might help them detect fraud early." http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/17/business/banks-find-fraud-abounds-in-apple-pay.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/17/business/banks-find-fraud-... Neither Apple nor banks will release official fraud numbers for Apple Pay despite repeated requests.