4 ms·

"More than you think, I suspect" That is very likely. Wikipedia has a list of long tunnels [1]. And "Tunnel Talk" lists what the world's "mega TBMs" are up to

"More than you think, I suspect" That is very likely. Wikipedia has a list of long tunnels [1]. And "Tunnel Talk" lists what the world's "mega TBMs" are up to [2] (frustratingly they quote tunnel diameters but not lengths). Seems like these machines are kept very busy, which makes sense given their cost. Edit: Even more tunnel-related stuff at http://tunnelbuilder.com/ http://tunnelbuilder.com/ [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_tunnels_in_the_world http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_tunnels_in_the_... [2] http://www.tunneltalk.com/Discussion-Forum-Mega-TBMs.php http://www.tunneltalk.com/Discussion-Forum-Mega-TBMs.php

darkr 11y ago
> Seems like these machines are kept very busy, which makes sense given their cost. Interestingly, many TBMs are left underground forever, as it's often more expensive to disassemble and remove them then to just abandon them.
- Animats 11y ago
  That's only done when you have a meet between two TBMs coming from opposite directions, and there's no way to get them out. Only for very long tunnels is that necessary. For most TBM jobs, you get the TBM back when it breaks though at the end of the job. After refurbishing, they're good for another job. Go to TunnelTalk.com for the best deals on used TBMs.[1] [1] http://www.tunneltalk.com/Equipment-Sales.php http://www.tunneltalk.com/Equipment-Sales.php
omh 11y ago
Seems like these machines are kept very busy I believe that many of them are actually single-use. Some (or perhaps all?) of the Crossrail TBMs are being buried at the end of their tunnel. Apparently the effort of removing them isn't worth their resale value? That tunnel talk page does mention that several TBMs are being reused though so perhaps this is changing with newer/larger machines.
- nly 11y ago
  At least one of the Chunnel TBMs was also driven in to its own grave.
  - Someone 11y ago
    If you do not take them out (which would have meant dismantling them and dragging the parts through kilometers of tunnel), they have to be, or they would block the tunnel they dug.
- lmm 11y ago
  They operate in an extremely hostile environment, which takes its toll, and a bit like fighter planes there aren't enough built to make a consume-quality product. Some are reused but they'll always go through a major overhaul in between doing so.
WildUtah 11y ago
"makes sense given their cost." OP indicates that the TBMs cost US$15MM each. I'm surprised they're so cheap. Those things are 50m long and full of complicated parts. It seems like the electronics and custom steel parts would cost that much and the actual design, construction, building, and testing the thing would cost several times as much. At US$15MM, the labor to run them or even just to do maintenance would cost much more than the machines themselves.
- nly 11y ago
  I thought that sounded cheap too, especially for such a niche market where they can probably afford to mark up.
  - msandford 11y ago
    Yes it's a niche market, but the markup isn't there because the companies that make TBMs don't actually MAKE much of them. There are probably 100 or more companies that make the parts and the company that says "that'll be $15mm please" doesn't do a lot more than put together the design from the various parts and contract everything to be produced, manufactured, etc. What they do have that you or I don't is contacts and business relationships with all the various suppliers and the knowledge of the myraid things that you need besides a bit spinny thing at the front, the conveyors that move the stuff out, and the hydraulics that move it forwards. In a very basic sense that's all a TBM is. But of course it probably does at least 20 other things that are absolutely vital to it functioning properly and efficiently. But if a few senior guys decided that they wanted to work for themselves they could probably take enough supplier relationships and domain knowledge and start up another TBM company.
- tobylane 11y ago
  The teeth need replacing often, even in the relatively soft gravel and clay below London.
zhte415 11y ago
The article mentioned £10 million per machine which, as a complete layman in these things, I found incredibly cheap, even assuming maintenance costs would likely out-weigh the cost of the machines.
- ucho 11y ago
  For recently completed tunnel in Gdańsk the machine cost was €21 million while the total cost for drilling operation was around €220 million

darkr 11y ago

> Seems like these machines are kept very busy, which makes sense given their cost. Interestingly, many TBMs are left underground forever, as it's often more expensive to disassemble and remove them then to just abandon them.

Animats 11y ago
That's only done when you have a meet between two TBMs coming from opposite directions, and there's no way to get them out. Only for very long tunnels is that necessary. For most TBM jobs, you get the TBM back when it breaks though at the end of the job. After refurbishing, they're good for another job. Go to TunnelTalk.com for the best deals on used TBMs.[1] [1] http://www.tunneltalk.com/Equipment-Sales.php http://www.tunneltalk.com/Equipment-Sales.php

omh 11y ago

Seems like these machines are kept very busy I believe that many of them are actually single-use. Some (or perhaps all?) of the Crossrail TBMs are being buried at the end of their tunnel. Apparently the effort of removing them isn't worth their resale value? That tunnel talk page does mention that several TBMs are being reused though so perhaps this is changing with newer/larger machines.

nly 11y ago
At least one of the Chunnel TBMs was also driven in to its own grave.
- Someone 11y ago
  If you do not take them out (which would have meant dismantling them and dragging the parts through kilometers of tunnel), they have to be, or they would block the tunnel they dug.
lmm 11y ago
They operate in an extremely hostile environment, which takes its toll, and a bit like fighter planes there aren't enough built to make a consume-quality product. Some are reused but they'll always go through a major overhaul in between doing so.

WildUtah 11y ago

"makes sense given their cost." OP indicates that the TBMs cost US$15MM each. I'm surprised they're so cheap. Those things are 50m long and full of complicated parts. It seems like the electronics and custom steel parts would cost that much and the actual design, construction, building, and testing the thing would cost several times as much. At US$15MM, the labor to run them or even just to do maintenance would cost much more than the machines themselves.

nly 11y ago
I thought that sounded cheap too, especially for such a niche market where they can probably afford to mark up.
- msandford 11y ago
  Yes it's a niche market, but the markup isn't there because the companies that make TBMs don't actually MAKE much of them. There are probably 100 or more companies that make the parts and the company that says "that'll be $15mm please" doesn't do a lot more than put together the design from the various parts and contract everything to be produced, manufactured, etc. What they do have that you or I don't is contacts and business relationships with all the various suppliers and the knowledge of the myraid things that you need besides a bit spinny thing at the front, the conveyors that move the stuff out, and the hydraulics that move it forwards. In a very basic sense that's all a TBM is. But of course it probably does at least 20 other things that are absolutely vital to it functioning properly and efficiently. But if a few senior guys decided that they wanted to work for themselves they could probably take enough supplier relationships and domain knowledge and start up another TBM company.
tobylane 11y ago
The teeth need replacing often, even in the relatively soft gravel and clay below London.

zhte415 11y ago

The article mentioned £10 million per machine which, as a complete layman in these things, I found incredibly cheap, even assuming maintenance costs would likely out-weigh the cost of the machines.

ucho 11y ago
For recently completed tunnel in Gdańsk the machine cost was €21 million while the total cost for drilling operation was around €220 million