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How I became a drug cheat athlete to test the system
- SebKba 11y agoWow! I've competed in rowing at fairly high level and reading this is article is shocking. I did not expect such a huge performance boost and THEN to turn up clean is insane. So far I've always given people the benefit of the doubt but this really makes me wonder...
- SovietDissident 11y agoRowing would be a perfect sport to do this in. I've heard rumors that there are rowers who do it, but I think the reason why it isn't that widespread is because there's no money in the sport. Although testing is lax, so maybe it is widespread at the top levels and we just don't know about it?
- SebKba 11y agoI rowed just below international level and several of my former team mates have world and olympic medals. Also, I know that my pure power output was better than some of the international rowers and I didn't even take Creatine. My house mate is in a national team squad right now and he gets surprise tested every few months. He actually has to keep a calendar of where he sleeps every single night so they can find you in the morning... I doubt there is much cheating going on in rowing, like you said, it's just not worth it financially.
- nl 11y agoRelated, much earlier (2003) article: http://www.outsideonline.com/1924306/drug-test http://www.outsideonline.com/1924306/drug-test He didn't try to avoid any tests though. That micro-dosing is effective for passing the biological passport hasn't been news since Tyler Hamilton detailed how it was done in his book[1]. Michele Ferrari (who invented it, and systemised a lot of doping methodology) is bad person. If you are interested in any endurance sport outside of cycling (which suffered the worst for a long time) then your sport has some challenges. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyler_Hamilton#Autobiography http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyler_Hamilton#Autobiography
- rwmj 11y agoI really would like to see sports where performance-enhancing drugs (except life-threatening ones) are permitted.
- johnchristopher 11y agoThat'd be tricky to set up because drugs are discriminatingly life-threatening depending on dosage and individuals.
- dylanjermiah 11y agoWater is life threatening at a high dosage. In fact, a dramatically higher number of people die from water each year than from PED's. Point is, people know the risks when they swim in a pool, people are capable of making decisions for themselves.
- bodyfour 11y agoThe problem is that they're probably nearly all life-threatening (or at a minimum longevity-threatening) in high enough doses. Fully permitted-doping would escalate into a bloodsport where athletes would be competing to show how many drugs they could take before keeling over.
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- vishnugupta 11y ago>Fully permitted-doping would escalate into a bloodsport where athletes would be competing to show how many drugs they could take before keeling over. Highly recommended reading : https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/08/money-in-the-bank/ https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/08/money-in-the-bank/ It's already happening albeit in a different sport (or entertainment industry).
- gnur 11y ago>> The problem is that they're probably nearly all life-threatening (or at a minimum longevity-threatening) in high enough doses. Everything is lethal in high enough doses.
- ghshephard 11y agoIn case one has ever wondered why the huge preponderance of drug use (particularly EPO) in endurance sports: Pre: EPO microdosing: I managed about 10-and-a-half minutes and a power output of 350 watts. ... score a 58 on the test, which compares favourably to the average person's 35 but rather pathetically against an elite athlete's 70+. Post EPO microdosing: I flew past my previous mark and hung on for more than 12 minutes and 375 watts. This gave me a score of 63, a 7% increase in seven weeks. How on earth could clean athletes ever expect to compete, particularly given that the chances of getting caught are so slim.
- utefan001 11y agoIn cycling one key is drafting. We have a few guys where I live that do well in big national races. When they show up on the Saturday group ride, weaker riders can keep up thanks to the advantage of drafting. A rider has to be about 30% stronger than me to pull away when I am drafting him.
- nl 11y agoWhich is why Grand Tours are really a test of climbing and time trialing ability.
- mauricemir 11y agoAnd tactics knowing when to husband your teams strength and when to push to get your GC contenders time advantage.
- bmj 11y agoAnd surviving three weeks of racing, often over very difficult terrain. Your "average" pro cyclist (the domestiques) dope because that's the only way get through a grand tour. It's not about going faster, it's about survival.
- jusben1369 11y agoBut the EPO user gets to draft too. So this is not an answer to the question about how can a clean cyclist compete against a doping one.
- mipapage 11y agoHere's the discussion over at Cyclingnews' 'doping' sub-forum: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=29527 http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=29527 Interesting to read what insiders have to say/think about it.
- S_A_P 11y agoThe whole guilt narrative seems odd to me. Wasn't he testing micro dosing and the passports efficacy? It seems disingenuous to add that whole aspect to me.
- ghshephard 11y agoI think it was pretty clear why he did that - now that people know he can MicroDose to very significantly enhance performance, who is going to believe in his performance being "natural" if he does extraordinarily well? Particularly as he demonstrated that even the more stringent systems didn't catch him. He was trying to make it super, super clear that he know that it is cheating, that it is wrong, and that if he EVER did this outside of this trial, that he would be guilty as sin.
- yodsanklai 11y agoIt's interesting, but not a scientific experiment. Can we draw any conclusion with "1 datapoint"? The 7% increase may be explained by familiarity with the effort test the second time, 7 weeks additional training, better confidence and morale and so on...
- nl 11y agoNo. VO2 tests are pretty well understood, and just don't vary like that (unless someone is sick).
- jusben1369 11y agoI think the biggest failure here is not tracking the 4 months prior. Each week, given he undertook dedicated training under the guidance of a professional, he would have seen an improvement in his results. I'm sure his measurements and ride data would have looked meaningfully different between week 2 and week 12 of his 4 month run up period. Now some of that would taper but he'd still see performance improvements after 4 months with regular dedicated training in place. So it would be key to have that context. Perhaps the increase due to doping is 3-5% vs the 7%. Still substantial either way.
- gus_massa 11y agoI almost agree. Probably the 7% is too much for only getting use to the setup and training, but to be sure I think this experiment would be much better if he compare again the performance after he stopped taking the drug. Something like a A-B-A test. Article about A-B-A: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-subject_research http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-subject_research Much more information and other variations: https://onlinecourses.science.psu.edu/stat509/book/export/html/123 https://onlinecourses.science.psu.edu/stat509/book/export/ht...
- andy_ppp 11y agoIt's interesting that we just accept genetic advantage and even prize it, but man made advantage is called cheating. Athletes should have handicaps like in horse racing ;-)
- andy_ppp 11y agoI'm not really sure why this was downvoted, apart from because you didn't enjoy my point of view. I personally think it added to the discussion. You are, of course, welcome to downvote this comment that definitely doesn't add to the discussion.
- dylanjermiah 11y agoOfftopic-ish, I do not think taking PED's is cheating. I'd really love to see what we're capable of without the shackles of the illegality and false perception that most have of PED's. Allowing for proper research and acceptance.
- michael_h 11y ago"The All-Drug Olympics" EDIT: The Reference: https://screen.yahoo.com/weekend-drug-olympics-000000571.html https://screen.yahoo.com/weekend-drug-olympics-000000571.htm...
- dylanjermiah 11y ago"The Olympics" But where athletes don't have to risk their health and can safely do what they're going to do anyway. Also they're better.
- saulrh 11y agoYep. I'm actually thinking that it'd end up less about drugs and more about high-power prostheses. Bottles of oxygen, tweaked pacemakers, artificial muscles, full-blown new limbs, that kind of thing. It'd rapidly become all about how intelligently the athlete is able to train with their new technology, making informed consent a requirement for performance rather than an ethical task.
- dylanjermiah 11y agoI think we need to deal with drug prohibition first before we cross the bridge to artificial muscles and new limbs. (although that sounds super damn cool!)
- lmm 11y agoMany PEDs are inherently unsafe. If you're e.g. boosting the hæmoglobin levels in your blood, that's necessarily putting stress on your heart and increasing your risk of problems in later life.
- bennofs 11y agoIt would be interesting to compare this with the improvement that he would have got if he did altitude training.
- j1e 11y agoThere is a lot of interesting info and history in the movie "Bigger Stronger Faster": http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1151309/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1151309/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
- hobbyjogger 11y agoI'm skeptical of the author's claim about V02max that "even half a percentage point can make the difference in elite sport, that is a huge bump." ________ RUNNING PREDICTS RUNNING BETTER THAN PHYSIOLOGY (a duh? moment here) Noakes, T. D., Myburgh, K. H., & Schall, R. (1990). Peak treadmill running velocity during VO2max test predicts running performance. Journal of Sports Sciences, 8, 35-45. The best laboratory predictors were: (a) peak treadmill running velocity (r = -.89 to -.94); (b) running velocity at lactate turnpoint (r = -.91 to -.93); and (c) fractional use of VO2max at 16 km/h (r = .86 to .90). The predictive value of the lactate turnpoint measure increased as the distance increased. The poorest predictors were: VO2max (r = -.55 to -.81) and VO2 at 16 km/h (r = .40 to .45).
- Retric 11y agoRunning and cycling are significantly different sports. A runner’s stride is very important, but cycling is almost pure power output by comparison. However, if you’re tracing a single athlete over time then skill tends to stay fairly constant and overall heath becomes the main focus of training.
- hobbyjogger 11y agoYou'd be surprised. Here's a pdf of the VO2max study(1) that established the relationship between efficiency and VO2max in elite cyclists is very similar to that shown in elite runners. Of the 11 world class cyclists tested, the best two riders were in the bottom 4 (<70 ml/kg/min) in pure VO2max. Interestingly, that means those two riders were closer to the amateur reporter in this story, even before the doping, than they were to the pros with the highest VO2max. (1) https://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/R063.pdf https://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/R063.pdf
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- Someone 11y agoAt lower levels, technique can handily beat raw power, and vice versa. At elite level, those lacking either technique or raw power will be filtered out, or forced to work hard on their weak points (example: Federer had to work on his weight training when the likes of Nadal and Djokovic hit the scene) In sports where competition is strong (1) that, at best, leaves those with good technique and exceptional power or exceptional technique and good power, but likely, top players are exceptional in both areas. In that group, getting more power or endurance can certainly be a decisive factor. And as another reply said, cycling (like cross-country skiing, and rowing) is a bit different in the sense that raw power (per kg) is a really good indicator of performance. (1) in weaker competitions, you can still see strong players with weak technique or vice versa. That happens in smaller countries, for example, and, historically in about every sport.
- gadders 11y agoThere was an interesting series of articles on T-Nation relatively recently on how easy it is to beat the Cross Fit (and by extension other organisaion's) drug tests: https://www.t-nation.com/steroids/beating-the-crossfit-drug-test https://www.t-nation.com/steroids/beating-the-crossfit-drug-...
- SCAQTony 11y agoThe 7% increase in performance is astonishing but with the gain comes potential pain: Least harmful side effects: Cold symptoms such as stuffy nose, sneezing, cough, sore throat, joint pain, bone pain, muscle pain, muscle spasm; dizziness, depression, mild headache, weight loss, sleep problems (insomnia), nausea, vomiting, trouble swallowing; or pain or tenderness where you injected the medication. Most severe side effects include: Seizure, uneven heartbeat, dangerously high blood pressure and more. http://www.rxlist.com/epogen-side-effects-drug-center.htm http://www.rxlist.com/epogen-side-effects-drug-center.htm