6 ms·

Cloud Haskell

104 points by flippant 11y ago

bsummer4 11y ago
Any idea when GHC 7.10's static pointers will be supported?
- DanWaterworth 11y ago
  Static pointers aren't all that usable in 7.10. I wouldn't be surprised if they waited for 7.12.
platz 11y ago
If Cloud Haskell is going to reference "Erlang-style concurrent and distributed programming" and the Open Telecom Platform (OTP), I think it's warranted on the site to also see a comparison of what, if any, differences there are between the two in philosophy or differences in the Cloud Haskell's interpretation of those two things. Will some features be prioritized over others?
- moomin 11y ago
  The most obvious one has to be that it doesn't run on BEAM, and so isn't going to favour the "1000 thread" approaches of true OTP systems.
  - njs12345 11y ago
    Haskell threads are pretty lightweight - 1000 would certainly be no problem: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1900165/how-long-does-it-take-to-create-1-million-threads-in-haskell http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1900165/how-long-does-it-...
    - dons 11y ago
      It was fun creating 3M threads on my laptop back in the day. http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/a4n7s/stackless_python_outperforms_googles_go/c0ftyao http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/a4n7s/stackless... :) memories!
  - stingraycharles 11y ago
    Are you familiar with Haskell's threading model (sparks) and making an assessment based on that, or is it an unbased claim? Haskell has no problems running millions of threads.
    - merijnv 11y ago
      FYI, sparks are different from threads. Haskell has "forkIO" threads which are comparable to Erlang processes/go-routines (actually, they're cheaper than both since haskell allocates less stack for threads). Threads are what you want for concurrent programming (i.e., non-deterministic interleaving of behaviour, which with GHC can be run in either single-threaded or multi-threaded mode). Sparks are for deterministic parallelism, the idea behind sparks is that you create a pool of sparks, each of which represent a small, finite bit of work that can be done in parallel. In general sparks will represent a finite, deterministic amount of work, whereas threads represent a (potentially) infinite amount of non-deterministic work.
      - flippant 11y ago
        For anyone looking for an example, I suggest Chapter 24 of Real World Haskell [1]. The parallel stuff is about halfway down. [1] http://book.realworldhaskell.org/read/concurrent-and-multicore-programming.html http://book.realworldhaskell.org/read/concurrent-and-multico...
        doublec 11y ago
        Also worth looking at "Parallel and Concurrent Programming in Haskell" http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1230000000929 http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1230000000929
        michaelochurch 11y ago
        Probably one of the best books on the topics (parallelism, concurrency, distributed programming) overall in addition to being a great Haskell resource.
  - moomin 11y ago
    I'm going to stand corrected on this one. Time to learn some more stuff, it seems.
carterschonwald 11y ago
Cloud Haskell has seen a lot of work by a lot of folks, but it's important to remind folks that it's not meant to serve every possible workload, nor is it necessarily the ultimate design for distributed compute in Haskell. It's good for some things, but not everything.
- kyllo 11y ago
  But if anyone was wondering "Can I do Actor Model / Microservices in Haskell" the answer is yes.
mintplant 11y ago
For those that might be scared by the fact that the "Recent Activity" list on the homepage hasn't been updated in a while: never fear, it's still under active development: https://github.com/haskell-distributed https://github.com/haskell-distributed
siscia 11y ago
What advantages it bring over Erlang/Elixir OTP ? Other than get to use Haskell...
- flippant 11y ago
  The obvious advantage is typed channels. http://haskell-distributed.github.io/documentation.html#typed_channels http://haskell-distributed.github.io/documentation.html#type...
  - fenollp 11y ago
    You can typecheck your had hoc Erlang protocols using Concuerror and Dialyzer
    - chongli 11y ago
      Haskell's types are used for a lot more than type-checking.
    - tel 11y ago
      Dialyzer is nice, no doubt! But to compare it to Haskell's typing is disingenuous at best. Success typing captures far less information and maintains far fewer invariants.
- dons 11y ago
  Faster and less memory intensive[1] and has a type system. [1]: http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/compare.php?lang=ghc&lang2=erlang http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/compare.php?lan...
  - siscia 11y ago
    Hummm... I do agree that Haskell will be faster and less memory intensive than erlang, but this benchmark is not really significant... I am not going to use erlang to write a mandelbrot...
jarcane 11y ago
I guess Haskell finally made it.
- michaelochurch 11y ago
  I'm currently leading an effort to introduce Haskell in a mid-size Chicago company that was historically a Ruby shop. Haskell has past "made it". At this point it's an embarrassment of riches. It's easy to get tied up trying to figure out which great Haskell library to use when the fact often is that any one of them is usually better than the leaders in most other languages.
  - tseing 11y ago
    What has been your experience using Haskell been like in production? I'd love to use it for my next project
    - michaelochurch 11y ago
      Very positive, and I'm not alone on this. I know of about 20 companies with Haskell deployments and no one has regretted the move.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
cassandranot 11y ago
Ah take the stillborn academic wasteland of a language, and apply it to the devtard fad of the day - the cloud. And this is the product. Meanwhile, back on the BEAM, we have a proper platform and a commercially proven solution. Haskell is not a technology in search of a problem, it is a waxy tech lost in a room in an academic hall, withh the dust falling upon it.
- mariojv 11y ago
  Are you a real person or just a troll? Your other comment today insults feminists as "femtards", and now you call people who interact with cloud platforms "devtards." There are many respected "cloud" companies with employees who've worked on a large variety of difficult problems and contributed to both open-source communities and the field of computing as a whole. Grow up and actually write something that's more than a paragraph-long ad hominem attack. It might be a good exercise to get rid of that insecurity that's probably causing this need to call others some form of "tards." WRT the actual post: This is a neat idea. If nothing else it might help expose more people to Haskell.

Cloud Haskell

104 points by flippant 11y ago

bsummer4 11y ago

Any idea when GHC 7.10's static pointers will be supported?

DanWaterworth 11y ago
Static pointers aren't all that usable in 7.10. I wouldn't be surprised if they waited for 7.12.

platz 11y ago

If Cloud Haskell is going to reference "Erlang-style concurrent and distributed programming" and the Open Telecom Platform (OTP), I think it's warranted on the site to also see a comparison of what, if any, differences there are between the two in philosophy or differences in the Cloud Haskell's interpretation of those two things. Will some features be prioritized over others?

moomin 11y ago
The most obvious one has to be that it doesn't run on BEAM, and so isn't going to favour the "1000 thread" approaches of true OTP systems.
- njs12345 11y ago
  Haskell threads are pretty lightweight - 1000 would certainly be no problem: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1900165/how-long-does-it-take-to-create-1-million-threads-in-haskell http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1900165/how-long-does-it-...
  - dons 11y ago
    It was fun creating 3M threads on my laptop back in the day. http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/a4n7s/stackless_python_outperforms_googles_go/c0ftyao http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/a4n7s/stackless... :) memories!
- stingraycharles 11y ago
  Are you familiar with Haskell's threading model (sparks) and making an assessment based on that, or is it an unbased claim? Haskell has no problems running millions of threads.
  - merijnv 11y ago
    FYI, sparks are different from threads. Haskell has "forkIO" threads which are comparable to Erlang processes/go-routines (actually, they're cheaper than both since haskell allocates less stack for threads). Threads are what you want for concurrent programming (i.e., non-deterministic interleaving of behaviour, which with GHC can be run in either single-threaded or multi-threaded mode). Sparks are for deterministic parallelism, the idea behind sparks is that you create a pool of sparks, each of which represent a small, finite bit of work that can be done in parallel. In general sparks will represent a finite, deterministic amount of work, whereas threads represent a (potentially) infinite amount of non-deterministic work.
    - flippant 11y ago
      For anyone looking for an example, I suggest Chapter 24 of Real World Haskell [1]. The parallel stuff is about halfway down. [1] http://book.realworldhaskell.org/read/concurrent-and-multicore-programming.html http://book.realworldhaskell.org/read/concurrent-and-multico...
      - doublec 11y ago
        Also worth looking at "Parallel and Concurrent Programming in Haskell" http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1230000000929 http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1230000000929
        michaelochurch 11y ago
        Probably one of the best books on the topics (parallelism, concurrency, distributed programming) overall in addition to being a great Haskell resource.
- moomin 11y ago
  I'm going to stand corrected on this one. Time to learn some more stuff, it seems.

carterschonwald 11y ago

Cloud Haskell has seen a lot of work by a lot of folks, but it's important to remind folks that it's not meant to serve every possible workload, nor is it necessarily the ultimate design for distributed compute in Haskell. It's good for some things, but not everything.

kyllo 11y ago
But if anyone was wondering "Can I do Actor Model / Microservices in Haskell" the answer is yes.

mintplant 11y ago

For those that might be scared by the fact that the "Recent Activity" list on the homepage hasn't been updated in a while: never fear, it's still under active development: https://github.com/haskell-distributed https://github.com/haskell-distributed

siscia 11y ago

What advantages it bring over Erlang/Elixir OTP ? Other than get to use Haskell...

flippant 11y ago
The obvious advantage is typed channels. http://haskell-distributed.github.io/documentation.html#typed_channels http://haskell-distributed.github.io/documentation.html#type...
- fenollp 11y ago
  You can typecheck your had hoc Erlang protocols using Concuerror and Dialyzer
  - chongli 11y ago
    Haskell's types are used for a lot more than type-checking.
  - tel 11y ago
    Dialyzer is nice, no doubt! But to compare it to Haskell's typing is disingenuous at best. Success typing captures far less information and maintains far fewer invariants.
dons 11y ago
Faster and less memory intensive[1] and has a type system. [1]: http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/compare.php?lang=ghc&lang2=erlang http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/compare.php?lan...
- siscia 11y ago
  Hummm... I do agree that Haskell will be faster and less memory intensive than erlang, but this benchmark is not really significant... I am not going to use erlang to write a mandelbrot...

jarcane 11y ago

I guess Haskell finally made it.

michaelochurch 11y ago
I'm currently leading an effort to introduce Haskell in a mid-size Chicago company that was historically a Ruby shop. Haskell has past "made it". At this point it's an embarrassment of riches. It's easy to get tied up trying to figure out which great Haskell library to use when the fact often is that any one of them is usually better than the leaders in most other languages.
- tseing 11y ago
  What has been your experience using Haskell been like in production? I'd love to use it for my next project
  - michaelochurch 11y ago
    Very positive, and I'm not alone on this. I know of about 20 companies with Haskell deployments and no one has regretted the move.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

cassandranot 11y ago

Ah take the stillborn academic wasteland of a language, and apply it to the devtard fad of the day - the cloud. And this is the product. Meanwhile, back on the BEAM, we have a proper platform and a commercially proven solution. Haskell is not a technology in search of a problem, it is a waxy tech lost in a room in an academic hall, withh the dust falling upon it.

mariojv 11y ago
Are you a real person or just a troll? Your other comment today insults feminists as "femtards", and now you call people who interact with cloud platforms "devtards." There are many respected "cloud" companies with employees who've worked on a large variety of difficult problems and contributed to both open-source communities and the field of computing as a whole. Grow up and actually write something that's more than a paragraph-long ad hominem attack. It might be a good exercise to get rid of that insecurity that's probably causing this need to call others some form of "tards." WRT the actual post: This is a neat idea. If nothing else it might help expose more people to Haskell.