4 ms·

>> So do you think calling Caitlyn Jenner by her current name is PC? The expectation that every single individual knows everything about her history and should

by NTDF9 11y ago

>> So do you think calling Caitlyn Jenner by her current name is PC? The expectation that every single individual knows everything about her history and should call her by her first name (instead of who she is best identified with...a transgender) is PC. In return, I'd ask you this. Why do you think I'm insulting her by calling her a transgender? I'm genuinely saying this in a respectful way. It is you who thinks that I am insulting her. You are the one at fault...I'm the genuine person here. I would in fact call a person asking me to be PC as being deceptive. You are the one totally ignoring that person's individuality. I, on the other hand, am fully accepting of her being a transgender....accepting her as an individual. Who's the one at fault?

dragonwriter 11y ago
> I'd ask you this. Why do you think I'm insulting her by calling her a transgender? The use of adjectives like "transgender" as nouns to label people is fairly widely viewed as demeaning. > I'm genuinely saying this in a respectful way. Er, no. If you were saying it in a "respectful way", it wouldn't be followed by this: > You are the one at fault...I'm the genuine person here. Moving on, > I would in fact call a person asking me to be PC as being deceptive. No one has asked you to "be PC"; grandparent asked you several questions about what you considered to be PC, which you then responded to with several misrepresentations of what they asked. > Who's the one at fault? The one who is saying that someone else is "at fault" based on a number of things that were never actually said (leaving aside the question of whether or not, had they been said, they would have supported the assignment of fault.)
- NTDF9 11y ago
  >> The use of adjectives like "transgender" as nouns to label people is fairly widely viewed as demeaning. Exactly my point. In the quest for PC, we cannot speak the truth (the truth here being that she is a transgender) just because it is "widely perceived as hurtful". So, how do I do an objective study (say, census count of transgenders) without being "hurtful"? (transgender = person whose self-identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender....not one time was I being hurtful).
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > In the quest for PC, we cannot speak the truth (the truth here being that she is a transgender) No, the truth is she is a transgender person/woman/individual. Its not the use of the adjective, in contexts where it is germane, that is demeaning, it is its use as a noun, separating the descriptor from the humanity of the person to whom it applies. > So, how do I do an objective study (say, census count of transgenders) without being "hurtful"? By using "transgender" as an adjective. Its not that hard to do.
    - NTDF9 11y ago
      >> Its not the use of the adjective, in contexts where it is germane, that is demeaning, it is its use as a noun, separating the descriptor from the humanity of the person to whom it applies. Do you realize how stupid and trivial this argument is? Any statistical analysis needs generalization. The generalization was not done in spite. It was for an objective study.
norea-armozel 11y ago
She is a transgender woman. So you'd use her, hers, and herself. It's not that hard and it's not political.
- NTDF9 11y ago
  Not one time have I called her a "him" or an "it". I have been respectful and treated her like I would treat any other category of humans. People should stop trying to enforce something that does not seem to be a problem. Use that energy on things that are real problems.
  - norea-armozel 11y ago
    Trust me, misgendering is a big problem in itself due to the violence that often accompanies it. It make rub you the wrong way when people tell jerks to not calling Caitlyn Bruce or to call her a her and not a him. But this is all part of getting through thick heads that gender identity of one person is not theirs to decide.

by NTDF9 11y ago

dragonwriter 11y ago

> I'd ask you this. Why do you think I'm insulting her by calling her a transgender? The use of adjectives like "transgender" as nouns to label people is fairly widely viewed as demeaning. > I'm genuinely saying this in a respectful way. Er, no. If you were saying it in a "respectful way", it wouldn't be followed by this: > You are the one at fault...I'm the genuine person here. Moving on, > I would in fact call a person asking me to be PC as being deceptive. No one has asked you to "be PC"; grandparent asked you several questions about what you considered to be PC, which you then responded to with several misrepresentations of what they asked. > Who's the one at fault? The one who is saying that someone else is "at fault" based on a number of things that were never actually said (leaving aside the question of whether or not, had they been said, they would have supported the assignment of fault.)

NTDF9 11y ago
>> The use of adjectives like "transgender" as nouns to label people is fairly widely viewed as demeaning. Exactly my point. In the quest for PC, we cannot speak the truth (the truth here being that she is a transgender) just because it is "widely perceived as hurtful". So, how do I do an objective study (say, census count of transgenders) without being "hurtful"? (transgender = person whose self-identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender....not one time was I being hurtful).
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > In the quest for PC, we cannot speak the truth (the truth here being that she is a transgender) No, the truth is she is a transgender person/woman/individual. Its not the use of the adjective, in contexts where it is germane, that is demeaning, it is its use as a noun, separating the descriptor from the humanity of the person to whom it applies. > So, how do I do an objective study (say, census count of transgenders) without being "hurtful"? By using "transgender" as an adjective. Its not that hard to do.
  - NTDF9 11y ago
    >> Its not the use of the adjective, in contexts where it is germane, that is demeaning, it is its use as a noun, separating the descriptor from the humanity of the person to whom it applies. Do you realize how stupid and trivial this argument is? Any statistical analysis needs generalization. The generalization was not done in spite. It was for an objective study.

norea-armozel 11y ago

She is a transgender woman. So you'd use her, hers, and herself. It's not that hard and it's not political.

NTDF9 11y ago
Not one time have I called her a "him" or an "it". I have been respectful and treated her like I would treat any other category of humans. People should stop trying to enforce something that does not seem to be a problem. Use that energy on things that are real problems.
- norea-armozel 11y ago
  Trust me, misgendering is a big problem in itself due to the violence that often accompanies it. It make rub you the wrong way when people tell jerks to not calling Caitlyn Bruce or to call her a her and not a him. But this is all part of getting through thick heads that gender identity of one person is not theirs to decide.