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Chronically late people just have a poor sense of how long things take. They don't intentionally hold up your time to be a jerk. Chill out.

laichzeit0 11y ago
Non performance plus a good excuse is still non performance. Chronically late people need to make an effort to be EARLY if they're so bad at estimating how long things take.
- icebraining 11y ago
  Some actually do; they still fail. Making an effort is, unfortunately, not a guarantee of success :)
- normloman 11y ago
  You miss my point. We can all agree that being late is bad. But why villianize late people as selfish, when in reality, most are just absent minded.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - snowpanda 11y ago
    I agree, this also struck me as a very judgmental article. I understand that some people are late because they lack respect. But that doesn't mean EVERY person that's late, does so for the same reason. One of my old professors was usually a bit late, but he had a heart of gold and really had no intention of being rude, he was just extremely disorganized in every possible way. But at the end of the day, he would often stays hours after class helping people without getting paid (on a Friday). I learned so much from him because he genuinely cared. Society is so quick to point at people and make judgements. Like normloman said, ... this article needs to chill out a bit.
    - vdaniuk 11y ago
      Usually, judgmental behavior stems from the incredible all-encompassing feeling of self-importance of those making a judgment. Chilling out is a preferred course of action. Also, hundreds of millions of people are parts of the cultures where it's absolutely normal to be late.
      - falcolas 11y ago
        The US isn't generally one of those cultures - expecting someone brought up in the US culture of timeliness to act like a Spaniard when someone else is late will is not a reasonable expectation. Not to mention, those inconvenienced by the late party also have expectations they have to meet, and so on. A professor who is 20 minutes late but still wants to lecture for a full hour can make you late for your next class, for which you are punished, not the previous lecturer. Should we chill? To a certain point. But after that point, it's our lives which are negatively affected, and being annoyed at someone who is making our lives harder is hardly unreasonable.
  - lps41 11y ago
    Being absent-minded just shows that someone doesn't care enough to make an effort. Someone who cares about something will not be absent-minded about it if they are willing to try.
    - vdaniuk 11y ago
      >Someone who cares about something will not be absent-minded about it if they are willing to try. I'd prefer a person who is constantly late than a one with your attitude.
      - mildbow 11y ago
        Wow. Personal attack huh? Anyway, each side is ugly in the extreme but consider the cost of each of the extreme. Person always late: wastes everyone's time. Person stewing about it: stews on silently. Which one is "evil"? Neither. Which one is inconsiderate?
        vdaniuk 11y ago
        >Person stewing about it: stews on silently. This is just absurd. The linked article, the majority of comments and your own comments are not silent at all.
        mildbow 11y ago
        Trust me, people stew about it a lot more than they speak up at the time. Which is why they are probably coming out of the woodwork now :) Also how did you figure out a majority of potential commentators aren't silent?
        vdaniuk 11y ago
        >majority A majority qualification wasn't present at any point in our short discussion. Don't move the goalposts. >how did you figure Impossible to do that. Maybe most potential commentators are so appalled by the aggressive and judgmental tone of the article/comments that they had to withdraw from the discussion. Let's not argue from speculation. >Trust me, people stew about it a lot more than they speak up at that time. I remain unconvinced.
  - theandrewbailey 11y ago
    Absent mindedness is a character flaw. It's fair game to blame or villianize someone over it.
    - vdaniuk 11y ago
      Wow, this is one petty evil comment.
      - mildbow 11y ago
        I don't agree. It definitely is a character flaw. Mind that we are talking about chronically late people. So, that equates being late with being an asshole with no respect for other people's time.
      - laichzeit0 11y ago
        It's weird you'd say that. What you repeatedly do, creates habit. Habits are what defines the character of someone. Your surprise seems to be grounded on the idea that lateness can be a habit formed in a way that the person has no control over it, that it's genetic perhaps? You'll be hard pressed to find many people that will agree with that thesis. It is habit formed by behaviour they have complete control over and to blame or villainize them is as akin to blame or villainize someone for e.g. masturbating in public.
  - chrisbennet 11y ago
    I'm absent minded. Now my phone reminds me. Problem solved.
striking 11y ago
That may be true for some, but some people actively flaunt their lateness. They're not apologetic and are unconcerned with how it makes others feel until it begins to affect them. These people are pretty bad, and I hope your view on lateness is only because you've never met a person like this.
- normloman 11y ago
  Of course I've met people like these. They're also douchebags in other ways. And they're a minority of the chronically late.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
ctdonath 11y ago
Not intentionally being a jerk doesn't mean you're not a jerk when you keep doing the same obnoxious behavior - and know it.
roel_v 11y ago
Let me use some terms from criminal law here, to dispute your claim (excuse?) of them 'intentionally' being a jerk. There are three kinds of 'intent' (roughly, 'mens rea'): - 'objective' (it's a lousy translation but I don't think there is a better work for it in English); this is when you find a man in bed with your wife and you want to kill him, so you put a bullet in his head. No discussion here. - 'knowledge of necessity': when the crime is not something you intended to do, but you knew that it would happen if you did something to get to another object. The text book example of this is a ship owner who wanted to collect the insurance money for his ship, so he sank it; the crew drowned. He didn't 'intent' to kill the crew, it was just a side effect of his actions in sinking the ship (he knew they were on it). - 'conditional intent', in many US jurisdictions aka 'willfull blindness': this one is the fuzziest. It's when you knowingly and willingly took the chance that someone would die (or other crime would happen). Text book example: 'eggshell skull' (Wikipedia has a whole page; in short: guy throws a slipper at wife's head, wife has a medical condition that causes her to have a skull that is literally as thick (and fragile) as an eggshell; guy didn't know; slipper breaks skull, killing wife - still murder). (I'm not interested in discussion on legal technicalities like the nuances of tort law under various legal regimes and mens rea as a precondition for qualification as murder) So, to come back to the point: people who are chronically late know that they are late. They could do something about it; like adding extra time to their estimates of home long things take, or not doing certain things when they know they're late already (like the 'getting coffee' mentioned in the GP, that infuriates me - my wife does it too, making me go through customs with a screaming toddler and 20kg suitcase in one hand, and coffee in the other once, but I digress). These people just choose to not work on their flaws and inflict their (easily fixable!) bad habits on others. That is most certainly 'intentional' in all but the most literal interpretation of the word.
- UK-AL 11y ago
  You can work on it, it doesn't mean its going to happen. Many things in life are inherently unpredictable. The number 1 cause of lateness is probably commutes. if your commute has a range of 50 minutes, to two hours. The only way to avoid being late is coming in hour early everyday. That's a massive cost. Other stuff that can happen like, your webcam not working for an internet meeting, and so on. Or an important client holding you up, before you before a meeting. People aren't inherently being dicks, they're struggling to cope unpredictable nature of the world.
mildbow 11y ago
Well. Unless you pushback with cancelling meetings/calling them out on it, they will forever continue to waste everyone else's time. I don't buy that they have a "poor sense of how long things take": they just don't care enough to keep it in mind. I recently had a first-meeting with a new client. I waited 20 mins. He didn't show up. I left. Maybe a little diva-ish? Idk. All I know is instead of stewing about his lateness and excuses, now I could get on with my day with a sense of empowerment. EDIT: Why the downvotes? Downvotes != disagreement. I can usually tell when a comment is going to be unpopular. This one confuses me. So please enlighten me :)
willstepp 11y ago
Such bull. Its inconsideration plain and simple.

laichzeit0 11y ago

Non performance plus a good excuse is still non performance. Chronically late people need to make an effort to be EARLY if they're so bad at estimating how long things take.

icebraining 11y ago
Some actually do; they still fail. Making an effort is, unfortunately, not a guarantee of success :)
normloman 11y ago
You miss my point. We can all agree that being late is bad. But why villianize late people as selfish, when in reality, most are just absent minded.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- snowpanda 11y ago
  I agree, this also struck me as a very judgmental article. I understand that some people are late because they lack respect. But that doesn't mean EVERY person that's late, does so for the same reason. One of my old professors was usually a bit late, but he had a heart of gold and really had no intention of being rude, he was just extremely disorganized in every possible way. But at the end of the day, he would often stays hours after class helping people without getting paid (on a Friday). I learned so much from him because he genuinely cared. Society is so quick to point at people and make judgements. Like normloman said, ... this article needs to chill out a bit.
  - vdaniuk 11y ago
    Usually, judgmental behavior stems from the incredible all-encompassing feeling of self-importance of those making a judgment. Chilling out is a preferred course of action. Also, hundreds of millions of people are parts of the cultures where it's absolutely normal to be late.
    - falcolas 11y ago
      The US isn't generally one of those cultures - expecting someone brought up in the US culture of timeliness to act like a Spaniard when someone else is late will is not a reasonable expectation. Not to mention, those inconvenienced by the late party also have expectations they have to meet, and so on. A professor who is 20 minutes late but still wants to lecture for a full hour can make you late for your next class, for which you are punished, not the previous lecturer. Should we chill? To a certain point. But after that point, it's our lives which are negatively affected, and being annoyed at someone who is making our lives harder is hardly unreasonable.
- lps41 11y ago
  Being absent-minded just shows that someone doesn't care enough to make an effort. Someone who cares about something will not be absent-minded about it if they are willing to try.
  - vdaniuk 11y ago
    >Someone who cares about something will not be absent-minded about it if they are willing to try. I'd prefer a person who is constantly late than a one with your attitude.
    - mildbow 11y ago
      Wow. Personal attack huh? Anyway, each side is ugly in the extreme but consider the cost of each of the extreme. Person always late: wastes everyone's time. Person stewing about it: stews on silently. Which one is "evil"? Neither. Which one is inconsiderate?
      - vdaniuk 11y ago
        >Person stewing about it: stews on silently. This is just absurd. The linked article, the majority of comments and your own comments are not silent at all.
        mildbow 11y ago
        Trust me, people stew about it a lot more than they speak up at the time. Which is why they are probably coming out of the woodwork now :) Also how did you figure out a majority of potential commentators aren't silent?
        vdaniuk 11y ago
        >majority A majority qualification wasn't present at any point in our short discussion. Don't move the goalposts. >how did you figure Impossible to do that. Maybe most potential commentators are so appalled by the aggressive and judgmental tone of the article/comments that they had to withdraw from the discussion. Let's not argue from speculation. >Trust me, people stew about it a lot more than they speak up at that time. I remain unconvinced.
- theandrewbailey 11y ago
  Absent mindedness is a character flaw. It's fair game to blame or villianize someone over it.
  - vdaniuk 11y ago
    Wow, this is one petty evil comment.
    - mildbow 11y ago
      I don't agree. It definitely is a character flaw. Mind that we are talking about chronically late people. So, that equates being late with being an asshole with no respect for other people's time.
    - laichzeit0 11y ago
      It's weird you'd say that. What you repeatedly do, creates habit. Habits are what defines the character of someone. Your surprise seems to be grounded on the idea that lateness can be a habit formed in a way that the person has no control over it, that it's genetic perhaps? You'll be hard pressed to find many people that will agree with that thesis. It is habit formed by behaviour they have complete control over and to blame or villainize them is as akin to blame or villainize someone for e.g. masturbating in public.
- chrisbennet 11y ago
  I'm absent minded. Now my phone reminds me. Problem solved.

striking 11y ago

That may be true for some, but some people actively flaunt their lateness. They're not apologetic and are unconcerned with how it makes others feel until it begins to affect them. These people are pretty bad, and I hope your view on lateness is only because you've never met a person like this.

normloman 11y ago
Of course I've met people like these. They're also douchebags in other ways. And they're a minority of the chronically late.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

ctdonath 11y ago

Not intentionally being a jerk doesn't mean you're not a jerk when you keep doing the same obnoxious behavior - and know it.

roel_v 11y ago

Let me use some terms from criminal law here, to dispute your claim (excuse?) of them 'intentionally' being a jerk. There are three kinds of 'intent' (roughly, 'mens rea'): - 'objective' (it's a lousy translation but I don't think there is a better work for it in English); this is when you find a man in bed with your wife and you want to kill him, so you put a bullet in his head. No discussion here. - 'knowledge of necessity': when the crime is not something you intended to do, but you knew that it would happen if you did something to get to another object. The text book example of this is a ship owner who wanted to collect the insurance money for his ship, so he sank it; the crew drowned. He didn't 'intent' to kill the crew, it was just a side effect of his actions in sinking the ship (he knew they were on it). - 'conditional intent', in many US jurisdictions aka 'willfull blindness': this one is the fuzziest. It's when you knowingly and willingly took the chance that someone would die (or other crime would happen). Text book example: 'eggshell skull' (Wikipedia has a whole page; in short: guy throws a slipper at wife's head, wife has a medical condition that causes her to have a skull that is literally as thick (and fragile) as an eggshell; guy didn't know; slipper breaks skull, killing wife - still murder). (I'm not interested in discussion on legal technicalities like the nuances of tort law under various legal regimes and mens rea as a precondition for qualification as murder) So, to come back to the point: people who are chronically late know that they are late. They could do something about it; like adding extra time to their estimates of home long things take, or not doing certain things when they know they're late already (like the 'getting coffee' mentioned in the GP, that infuriates me - my wife does it too, making me go through customs with a screaming toddler and 20kg suitcase in one hand, and coffee in the other once, but I digress). These people just choose to not work on their flaws and inflict their (easily fixable!) bad habits on others. That is most certainly 'intentional' in all but the most literal interpretation of the word.

UK-AL 11y ago
You can work on it, it doesn't mean its going to happen. Many things in life are inherently unpredictable. The number 1 cause of lateness is probably commutes. if your commute has a range of 50 minutes, to two hours. The only way to avoid being late is coming in hour early everyday. That's a massive cost. Other stuff that can happen like, your webcam not working for an internet meeting, and so on. Or an important client holding you up, before you before a meeting. People aren't inherently being dicks, they're struggling to cope unpredictable nature of the world.

mildbow 11y ago

Well. Unless you pushback with cancelling meetings/calling them out on it, they will forever continue to waste everyone else's time. I don't buy that they have a "poor sense of how long things take": they just don't care enough to keep it in mind. I recently had a first-meeting with a new client. I waited 20 mins. He didn't show up. I left. Maybe a little diva-ish? Idk. All I know is instead of stewing about his lateness and excuses, now I could get on with my day with a sense of empowerment. EDIT: Why the downvotes? Downvotes != disagreement. I can usually tell when a comment is going to be unpopular. This one confuses me. So please enlighten me :)

willstepp 11y ago

Such bull. Its inconsideration plain and simple.