4 ms·

Funny for a moment I thought some one submitted a headline with an Indian word in it. Asthir in Hindi/Bengali means unstable, not stationary or worked up (remot

Funny for a moment I thought some one submitted a headline with an Indian word in it. Asthir in Hindi/Bengali means unstable, not stationary or worked up (remotely connected to Astir?)

dalke 11y ago
My thought is that the "a-" prefix in this sense probably comes from the Germanic use "to show a state, condition, or manner"; http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/a-#Etymology_2 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/a-#Etymology_2 . It's no longer used to make new words, but the "a-" form remains in many words, including abloom, aflame, and abuzz. The first known use of the word "astir" is from 1765, says Merriam-Webster at http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/astir http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/astir . This is what I would expect if "stir" was a word, "a-" was a possible mechanism to create new words, and eventually people started to use "astir. Etymonline gives a first known use as 1823: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=astir&searchmode=none http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&searc... : > "up and about," 1823, from phrase on the stir, or from Scottish asteer; from stir. Old English had astyrian, which yielded Middle English ben astired "be stirred up, excited, aroused." The root "stir" has a longer heritage. Etymonline at http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=stir&allowed_in_frame=0 http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=stir&allowed_in_fra... says: > Old English styrian "to stir, move; rouse, agitate, incite, urge" (transitive and intransitive), from Proto-Germanic * sturjan (cognates: Middle Dutch stoeren, Dutch storen "to disturb," Old High German storan "to scatter, destroy," German stören "to disturb"), from PIE * (s)twer- (1) "to turn, whirl" (see storm (n.)). Hindi is another descendant of Proto Indo-European, so that may be where there's a connection to "asthir". However, do bear in mind that the surface similarity is false - astyrian would be linguistically closer to the Hindi than astir.
- programmer_dude 11y ago
  Thanks for the informative post! However I think asthir may be a false friend in this case. The a- prefix is used to negate sthir in asthir. Sthir in Indian languages means stable, stationary, motionless etc. Kind of like the a- prefix in English sometimes (social, asocial etc.) But it is not uncommon for word meanings to change in such a way that they take on a meaning exactly opposite of what they used to mean (see for example the meaning of the word nice: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=nice&allowed_in_frame=0 http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=nice&allowed_in_fra...). I wonder if there is a name for this phenomenon.
  - dalke 11y ago
    Awesome! http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=awe&allowed_in_frame=0 http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=awe&allowed_in_frame=0 :)
donovanr 11y ago
The etymology of stir dates back to proto-indo-european roots [1], so you might be right. [1] http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=stir http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=stir

Funny for a moment I thought some one submitted a headline with an Indian word in it. Asthir in Hindi/Bengali means unstable, not stationary or worked up (remotely connected to Astir?)

dalke 11y ago

My thought is that the "a-" prefix in this sense probably comes from the Germanic use "to show a state, condition, or manner"; http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/a-#Etymology_2 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/a-#Etymology_2 . It's no longer used to make new words, but the "a-" form remains in many words, including abloom, aflame, and abuzz. The first known use of the word "astir" is from 1765, says Merriam-Webster at http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/astir http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/astir . This is what I would expect if "stir" was a word, "a-" was a possible mechanism to create new words, and eventually people started to use "astir. Etymonline gives a first known use as 1823: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=astir&searchmode=none http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&searc... : > "up and about," 1823, from phrase on the stir, or from Scottish asteer; from stir. Old English had astyrian, which yielded Middle English ben astired "be stirred up, excited, aroused." The root "stir" has a longer heritage. Etymonline at http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=stir&allowed_in_frame=0 http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=stir&allowed_in_fra... says: > Old English styrian "to stir, move; rouse, agitate, incite, urge" (transitive and intransitive), from Proto-Germanic * sturjan (cognates: Middle Dutch stoeren, Dutch storen "to disturb," Old High German storan "to scatter, destroy," German stören "to disturb"), from PIE * (s)twer- (1) "to turn, whirl" (see storm (n.)). Hindi is another descendant of Proto Indo-European, so that may be where there's a connection to "asthir". However, do bear in mind that the surface similarity is false - astyrian would be linguistically closer to the Hindi than astir.

programmer_dude 11y ago
Thanks for the informative post! However I think asthir may be a false friend in this case. The a- prefix is used to negate sthir in asthir. Sthir in Indian languages means stable, stationary, motionless etc. Kind of like the a- prefix in English sometimes (social, asocial etc.) But it is not uncommon for word meanings to change in such a way that they take on a meaning exactly opposite of what they used to mean (see for example the meaning of the word nice: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=nice&allowed_in_frame=0 http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=nice&allowed_in_fra...). I wonder if there is a name for this phenomenon.
- dalke 11y ago
  Awesome! http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=awe&allowed_in_frame=0 http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=awe&allowed_in_frame=0 :)

donovanr 11y ago

The etymology of stir dates back to proto-indo-european roots [1], so you might be right. [1] http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=stir http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=stir