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So I finally tried Wave...

120 points by mrduncan 17y ago

riffer 17y ago
I love this guy: If you want to learn more about Wave, I would start there and skip this post His point that the product must be in a very early stage of development because it apparently hasn't gone though the process where marginal features are winnowed is fantastic orthogonal thinking.
- wtallis 17y ago
  It's also surprising when you realize how rarely that assumption holds true. Far too many applications ship several versions without ever getting rid of the features that should never have been there in the first place. It's a testament to Google's reputation for quality (and long betas) that we feel we can safely assume that the marginal features will be removed or improved in a timely fashion.
  - johns 17y ago
    Is there some history of this actually happening at Google? I can't recall any big products that have shed features. My recollection is obviously limited, but I'd love to hear of some examples. Shuttering whole products/services doesn't count to me.
    - aerique 17y ago
      Well, for one, the man himself gave Gmail as example.
      - bumblebird 17y ago
        It didn't sound like Gmail was made public with the features. Sounded like they were removed before it went public.
    - Kliment 17y ago
      Well, he lists the gmail-specific ones in the post. I guess users of services provided by startups later bought by Google could provide more data on this. Any Grandcentral or Jaiku users (off the top of my head, there are plenty more of course) care to tell us if anything was dropped before the Google release?
amichail 17y ago
I'm not sure if this is because I have an obligation to try all new products, or because my views on the longevity of email will seem hopelessly naive once I try Wave, but either way, I mustn't disappoint the good people of TechCrunch :) I think what's implied is much worse than that actually... namely that Paul would rather not have Google Wave eclipse GMail. And for that reason, he didn't even want to look at it.
- diN0bot 17y ago
  yeah....he's just a nice guy and doesn't want to pick meaningless battles.
- NathanKP 17y ago
  I don't think that Google Wave will replace GMail for a while. For on thing, it contradicts the theory of "do the simplest thing that possibly works." Google Wave is great for collaboration and group work and game playing. However, when it comes to replacing email it is too bloated I think. Of course they will probably speed it up and simplify as it develops. Also there will always be a market for a simple email client, if only for the simple reason that not everyone wants the entire world to see that they can't type very well. It is more professional to send a completed email then to have the recipient see you typing in realtime complete with misspellings, clumsy typing, and grammar errors. That is the main impression that I have with Google Wave. Everyone watching a wave can see me type so I have to be more careful rather than just typing then looking it over before hitting "Reply".
  - ThinkWriteMute 17y ago
    The "see me type" thing is a feature you can turn off.
    - NathanKP 17y ago
      Thanks for telling me. I'll have to dig through the settings and find it.
Locke1689 17y ago
I'm a little confused about his description of linear vs nonlinear. Maybe it's because I haven't tried Wave yet. P.S. If anyone has any invites available, my email is in my profile ;)
- sharksandwich 17y ago
  Sent you one. I have a few more if anyone else wants one - send me an email
  - diN0bot 17y ago
    btw - i think you won't receive the invite until the next "wave" of users. i'm guessing they're staggering users with product iteration. almost everyone i talk to says: this is cool, but none of my friends are on it. maybe google is addressing this with different circles of folks, but from where i'm standing it seems like they could have forced a better distribution of invites.
    - ja27 17y ago
      Lately invites have been going out pretty quickly. Maybe they're hearing all of us saying that we really can't even try it if nobody is on it.
    - NathanKP 17y ago
      Actually invites are going out quite quickly at least from what I have seen. I received one about two weeks ago, only about a day after it was requested for me by another user.
  - alex_c 17y ago
    Cheers - got it :)
  - Locke1689 17y ago
    Thanks, got it too!
- bbgm 17y ago
diN0bot 17y ago
nice response. i didn't realize there were bloggers out there who could be calm and informative.
deleted 17y ago
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mark_l_watson 17y ago
I like his response. re: Wave itself: I am more enthusiastic about Wave as a platform (custom robots for back end processing, gadgets) for software development.
mojuba 17y ago
My impression from Wave was the same: the hierarchical structure turns "waves" into an unmaintainable mess too easily and too quickly. I find the user interface a bit counter-intuitive and cluttered too. Whatever Paul feels about Wave, he actually makes a couple of clever suggestions Wave's team, I think, should listen to: make it (optionally?) linear and also build the wave-to-email gate. These two things are more important for Wave at the moment than anything else. If Paul built Wave it'd probably be in a more usable state now, wouldn't it?
andreyf 17y ago
Most insightful and original bit is at the end: I don't know what Google has planned for Wave or Gmail, but if I were them I would continue improving Wave, and then once it's ready for the whole world to use, integrate it into Gmail. Moving Wave into Gmail would give it a huge userbase, and partially address the "email is universal" problem. They could use MIME multi-part to send both a non-Wave, HTML version of the message, and the Wave version. Wave-enabled mail readers would display the live Wave, while older mailers would show the static version along with a link to the live Wave.
- tumult 17y ago
  That's not insightful. You can't use Wave like that. It's technically an impossibility. Guy has no clue what he's talking about, just like every other armchair reviewer of Wave.
  - deleted 17y ago
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fjabre 17y ago
Definitely not a ringing endorsement.. I do like his idea at the end but I think it would make more sense for Gmail to be integrated into Wave instead of vice-versa.. Integrating back into Gmail seems awkward at best..

120 points by mrduncan 17y ago

I love this guy: If you want to learn more about Wave, I would start there and skip this post His point that the product must be in a very early stage of development because it apparently hasn't gone though the process where marginal features are winnowed is fantastic orthogonal thinking.

wtallis 17y ago
It's also surprising when you realize how rarely that assumption holds true. Far too many applications ship several versions without ever getting rid of the features that should never have been there in the first place. It's a testament to Google's reputation for quality (and long betas) that we feel we can safely assume that the marginal features will be removed or improved in a timely fashion.
- johns 17y ago
  Is there some history of this actually happening at Google? I can't recall any big products that have shed features. My recollection is obviously limited, but I'd love to hear of some examples. Shuttering whole products/services doesn't count to me.
  - aerique 17y ago
    Well, for one, the man himself gave Gmail as example.
    - bumblebird 17y ago
      It didn't sound like Gmail was made public with the features. Sounded like they were removed before it went public.
  - Kliment 17y ago
    Well, he lists the gmail-specific ones in the post. I guess users of services provided by startups later bought by Google could provide more data on this. Any Grandcentral or Jaiku users (off the top of my head, there are plenty more of course) care to tell us if anything was dropped before the Google release?

amichail 17y ago

I'm not sure if this is because I have an obligation to try all new products, or because my views on the longevity of email will seem hopelessly naive once I try Wave, but either way, I mustn't disappoint the good people of TechCrunch :) I think what's implied is much worse than that actually... namely that Paul would rather not have Google Wave eclipse GMail. And for that reason, he didn't even want to look at it.

diN0bot 17y ago
yeah....he's just a nice guy and doesn't want to pick meaningless battles.
NathanKP 17y ago
I don't think that Google Wave will replace GMail for a while. For on thing, it contradicts the theory of "do the simplest thing that possibly works." Google Wave is great for collaboration and group work and game playing. However, when it comes to replacing email it is too bloated I think. Of course they will probably speed it up and simplify as it develops. Also there will always be a market for a simple email client, if only for the simple reason that not everyone wants the entire world to see that they can't type very well. It is more professional to send a completed email then to have the recipient see you typing in realtime complete with misspellings, clumsy typing, and grammar errors. That is the main impression that I have with Google Wave. Everyone watching a wave can see me type so I have to be more careful rather than just typing then looking it over before hitting "Reply".
- ThinkWriteMute 17y ago
  The "see me type" thing is a feature you can turn off.
  - NathanKP 17y ago
    Thanks for telling me. I'll have to dig through the settings and find it.

Locke1689 17y ago

I'm a little confused about his description of linear vs nonlinear. Maybe it's because I haven't tried Wave yet. P.S. If anyone has any invites available, my email is in my profile ;)

sharksandwich 17y ago
Sent you one. I have a few more if anyone else wants one - send me an email
- diN0bot 17y ago
  btw - i think you won't receive the invite until the next "wave" of users. i'm guessing they're staggering users with product iteration. almost everyone i talk to says: this is cool, but none of my friends are on it. maybe google is addressing this with different circles of folks, but from where i'm standing it seems like they could have forced a better distribution of invites.
  - ja27 17y ago
    Lately invites have been going out pretty quickly. Maybe they're hearing all of us saying that we really can't even try it if nobody is on it.
  - NathanKP 17y ago
    Actually invites are going out quite quickly at least from what I have seen. I received one about two weeks ago, only about a day after it was requested for me by another user.
- alex_c 17y ago
  Cheers - got it :)
- Locke1689 17y ago
  Thanks, got it too!
bbgm 17y ago

diN0bot 17y ago

nice response. i didn't realize there were bloggers out there who could be calm and informative.

deleted 17y ago

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mark_l_watson 17y ago

I like his response. re: Wave itself: I am more enthusiastic about Wave as a platform (custom robots for back end processing, gadgets) for software development.

mojuba 17y ago

My impression from Wave was the same: the hierarchical structure turns "waves" into an unmaintainable mess too easily and too quickly. I find the user interface a bit counter-intuitive and cluttered too. Whatever Paul feels about Wave, he actually makes a couple of clever suggestions Wave's team, I think, should listen to: make it (optionally?) linear and also build the wave-to-email gate. These two things are more important for Wave at the moment than anything else. If Paul built Wave it'd probably be in a more usable state now, wouldn't it?

andreyf 17y ago

Most insightful and original bit is at the end: I don't know what Google has planned for Wave or Gmail, but if I were them I would continue improving Wave, and then once it's ready for the whole world to use, integrate it into Gmail. Moving Wave into Gmail would give it a huge userbase, and partially address the "email is universal" problem. They could use MIME multi-part to send both a non-Wave, HTML version of the message, and the Wave version. Wave-enabled mail readers would display the live Wave, while older mailers would show the static version along with a link to the live Wave.

tumult 17y ago
That's not insightful. You can't use Wave like that. It's technically an impossibility. Guy has no clue what he's talking about, just like every other armchair reviewer of Wave.
- deleted 17y ago
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- deleted 17y ago
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fjabre 17y ago

Definitely not a ringing endorsement.. I do like his idea at the end but I think it would make more sense for Gmail to be integrated into Wave instead of vice-versa.. Integrating back into Gmail seems awkward at best..