4 ms·

Let me play the devil's advocate: If you're convinced that this WILL cause discomfort, why are you asking people - which very well might be too polite/afraid/d

Let me play the devil's advocate: If you're convinced that this WILL cause discomfort, why are you asking people - which very well might be too polite/afraid/distracted to decline - if you can do that? Aren't you, based on your very own impression and description of reclining, asking people if you can slap them every 10min for the rest of the flight? (I dislike flying in general, and I never had to take a flight longer than 4.5 hours. I couldn't care less about the argument, but would probably lean towards the 'So my chair can be set back. I guess I use it as intended' position)

dragonwriter 11y ago
> Aren't you, based on your very own impression and description of reclining, asking people if you can slap them every 10min for the rest of the flight? A slap with consent may be weird, but a slap without consent is battery. So, if one accepts your slap analogy, there's a good reason to ask consent.
- darklajid 11y ago
  That's twisting the idea quite a bit. For me there is no analogy or issue. Ignoring the 'I think flights are crap in general' base line: My seat. I recline it or not, but that's my decision. I would have a harder time to recline it, if I'd be convinced that this is in some way 'hard' on the one behind me. But IF I were convinced that this was 'hard' for the person behind me, I'd not ask them for consent. A) They say "Please don't recline". Hah! I'm right! And I'm a great person for asking, and now not reclining my seat. Go me. B) They say "Enjoy" B1) Hmm. I am convinced that this reclining thing is bad for people in the seats behind the person in question. They agreed, but unless I'm wrong I'm now making their life miserable. But yeah - they're fine with it? B2) Interesting. Maybe reclining isn't that bad? I should reflect and think about whether my 'reclining is bad and torture' idea is sensible.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    Or, maybe all possible people sitting behind you aren't identical, and reclining is really bad for some of them and not others, and asking gives them the opportunity to let you know whether it's bad for the one actually affected in the particular instance.
    - darklajid 11y ago
      Touche, you're right. Note that the first post I replied to said it is more a display of courtesy to someone whom you are about to cause discomfort which my English as a second language skills parse as unconditionally causing discomfort (after asking). That's the twist. IF you are convinced that reclining your seat causes discomfort, would asking for permission be the right thing to do? (Obviously I might just plain suck at English once more and fail to understand that sentence correctly)
      - rfergie 11y ago
        Just to be clear - if they say "no" then I don't recline. But I can see that this isn't clear from my original post so sorry for causing confusion
        darklajid 11y ago
        Hmm.. Let me explain my (probably broken) mental model. But I'm not sure it really is about the yes/no answer - it is more a display of courtesy to someone whom you are about to cause discomfort I parse that as - You think reclining causes discomfort (Not sure I agree, but let's take this as given for now) - But you ask the one behind you For me it followed that if the person behind you says 'Sure, go ahead' you'd knowingly cause them discomfort (albeit after asking them / with their consent)? For the sake of sanity: Can you pick that apart for me? Text is a crappy medium, this isn't my native language and nuances are hard. Where did I fail?
        rfergie 11y ago
        From what you say there I think you understand me. Throughout this interaction I am assuming a few things: 1. Reclining causes discomfort to the person behind 2. But the amount of discomfort varies quite a bit from person to person (e.g. I can imagine that a small child is less discomforted than others) 3. I can't really tell for sure how much discomfort reclining will cause so I ask if it is OK to recline. Then it is up to the person behind to decide how comfortable they are with this. Are you suggesting that I shouldn't recline at all because it causes discomfort to those behind even if the amount of discomfort might be negligible?

dragonwriter 11y ago

> Aren't you, based on your very own impression and description of reclining, asking people if you can slap them every 10min for the rest of the flight? A slap with consent may be weird, but a slap without consent is battery. So, if one accepts your slap analogy, there's a good reason to ask consent.

darklajid 11y ago
That's twisting the idea quite a bit. For me there is no analogy or issue. Ignoring the 'I think flights are crap in general' base line: My seat. I recline it or not, but that's my decision. I would have a harder time to recline it, if I'd be convinced that this is in some way 'hard' on the one behind me. But IF I were convinced that this was 'hard' for the person behind me, I'd not ask them for consent. A) They say "Please don't recline". Hah! I'm right! And I'm a great person for asking, and now not reclining my seat. Go me. B) They say "Enjoy" B1) Hmm. I am convinced that this reclining thing is bad for people in the seats behind the person in question. They agreed, but unless I'm wrong I'm now making their life miserable. But yeah - they're fine with it? B2) Interesting. Maybe reclining isn't that bad? I should reflect and think about whether my 'reclining is bad and torture' idea is sensible.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  Or, maybe all possible people sitting behind you aren't identical, and reclining is really bad for some of them and not others, and asking gives them the opportunity to let you know whether it's bad for the one actually affected in the particular instance.
  - darklajid 11y ago
    Touche, you're right. Note that the first post I replied to said it is more a display of courtesy to someone whom you are about to cause discomfort which my English as a second language skills parse as unconditionally causing discomfort (after asking). That's the twist. IF you are convinced that reclining your seat causes discomfort, would asking for permission be the right thing to do? (Obviously I might just plain suck at English once more and fail to understand that sentence correctly)
    - rfergie 11y ago
      Just to be clear - if they say "no" then I don't recline. But I can see that this isn't clear from my original post so sorry for causing confusion
      - darklajid 11y ago
        Hmm.. Let me explain my (probably broken) mental model. But I'm not sure it really is about the yes/no answer - it is more a display of courtesy to someone whom you are about to cause discomfort I parse that as - You think reclining causes discomfort (Not sure I agree, but let's take this as given for now) - But you ask the one behind you For me it followed that if the person behind you says 'Sure, go ahead' you'd knowingly cause them discomfort (albeit after asking them / with their consent)? For the sake of sanity: Can you pick that apart for me? Text is a crappy medium, this isn't my native language and nuances are hard. Where did I fail?
        rfergie 11y ago
        From what you say there I think you understand me. Throughout this interaction I am assuming a few things: 1. Reclining causes discomfort to the person behind 2. But the amount of discomfort varies quite a bit from person to person (e.g. I can imagine that a small child is less discomforted than others) 3. I can't really tell for sure how much discomfort reclining will cause so I ask if it is OK to recline. Then it is up to the person behind to decide how comfortable they are with this. Are you suggesting that I shouldn't recline at all because it causes discomfort to those behind even if the amount of discomfort might be negligible?