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New PayPal policy opts you into getting robocalls

• andegre 11y ago
  so, what are some PayPal alternatives?
  • JoshTriplett 11y ago
    Depends on the functionality you need. For payment processing, try Stripe. To send money between individuals, try your bank's "send money to anyone" mechanism if they have one; I don't know of good alternatives there.
    • callahad 11y ago
      Venmo is evidently popular for interpersonal transfers. I haven't used it, but then again I'm right on the "Venmo line:" http://qz.com/277509/read-what-happens-when-a-bunch-of-over-30s-find-out-how-millennials-handle-their-money/ http://qz.com/277509/read-what-happens-when-a-bunch-of-over-... (TL:DR; effectively everyone at QZ under the age of 30 is using Venmo regularly, and those over 30 are kind of baffled.)
      • JoshTriplett 11y ago
        Venmo is owned (indirectly) by PayPal. Braintree bought Venmo, and PayPal bought Braintree.
    • fapjacks 11y ago
      Transferwise. I have used it internationally to great effect. It is incredibly easy and fast. Another option here for easy and fast is Popmoney.
    • Domenic_S 11y ago
      Square Cash. Ridiculously good. https://cash.me/ https://cash.me/ Payments show up magically in your bank account. Downside: transfer limit is like $2k.
    • zhengyi13 11y ago
      Google Wallet lets you send money to individuals, even as an attachment in GMail, but not CC backed; you need to back it with a debit card IIRC. Disclosure: I work for Google, but not on Wallet.
  • asn0 11y ago
    Many banks have free billpay services, you can send a check to someone for free, they can use their bank's mobile deposit to save the trip to the bank. Not ideal, but it also doesn't robocall you.
    • josteink 11y ago
      For instant, worldwide, international transfers in the 21st century... You suggest cheques and snail mail. For real?
      • scrumper 11y ago
        This blew me away upon moving from the UK to the USA. In the UK, my (old school, household name, bricks and mortar) bank's online service lets me wire money to any other British account completely free, up to multiple thousands of pounds. They all do. It's instant to many banks, up to 3 days for others. It has digital signatures for payments using a little pinpad device. It is how moderate sums of money moves around between friends and family and invoicers. In the USA, the same facility causes the bank to mail a paper cheque. I was flabbergasted when I discovered that. In 2015, cheques (checks) are still absolutely everywhere. My debit & credit cards don't have chips. It's like the country is 15 years behind Europe. Things are moving in the right direction though: many stores no longer take checks, and a new account I opened with a major institution lets me wire money to (and draw from, which is terrifying) nominated accounts with other institutions online for free, and their card has a chip on it.
  • stevetjoa 11y ago
    For small personal transactions, I like Square Cash [1] because I can pay by sending a simple email. Deposits also seem to be pretty fast. [1] https://squareup.com/help/us/en/article/5372-square-cash-with-email https://squareup.com/help/us/en/article/5372-square-cash-wit...
  • ndarilek 11y ago
    For interpersonal transfers, I had good luck with Dwolla for a while before switching back to Paypal for faster transfers. If they go through with this, though, I guess I'm back to Dwolla if they haven't yet gone evil. Was pretty happy with them other than for the speed.
  • ToastyMallows 11y ago
    Surprised that no one has mentioned Google Wallet (https://www.google.com/wallet/send-money/ https://www.google.com/wallet/send-money/). You may have issues sending money outside of the US, and a Google account is required. No fees and I've never had a problem with it.
    • josteink 11y ago
      > You may have issues sending money outside of the US So basically the only reason why people use PayPal is because of international transfers, and as an option to that you propose something which only works in one country. Sounds great.
      • pbreit 11y ago
        Surprised no one has mentioned it!!
      • yellowapple 11y ago
        > So basically the only reason why people use PayPal is because of international transfers Huh? Does that make me the only one who uses PayPal solely because a bunch of people selling things online use PayPal and it's somewhat more convenient than having to fork over my credit card info every time I want to buy something?
        • josteink 11y ago
          > Does that make me the only one who uses PayPal solely because a bunch of people selling things online Selling things online, on the internet, where there are no country borders.... Sounds like international transfers and payment to me. Am I missing something?
          • yellowapple 11y ago
            The vast majority of my PayPal transactions are domestic.
  • RexRollman 11y ago
    Amazon payments?
  • yellowapple 11y ago
    In addition to the other recommendations, there's also Bitcoin (and other cryptocurrencies), which (for the time being) is the only option that's mostly immune to PayPal-style dickery (depending on how you manage your wallet and what methods you use to turn USD into Bitcoin and vice-versa; most formal American exchanges, for example, do have to collect quite a bit of information per relevant laws). Unfortunately, cryptocurrencies have their own convenience issues.
• JoshTriplett 11y ago
  I am utterly unsurprised. Normally, you'd expect a payments company to be one that needs to cultivate trust; however, PayPal seems determined to test out every scummy business practice they can.
• mratzloff 11y ago
  It is really convenient to automatically pay my bills through PayPal (or any widely available payment abstraction layer), but I may have to switch back to my debit card if they insist on this policy. (My debit card is much less convenient because some new attack happens at least once a year where they have to send out a new card.)
  • JoshTriplett 11y ago
    Why not use a zero-fee credit card, rather than your debit card? If a problem happens with your debit card, your bank will eventually fix it, but in the meantime your account may be drained. If a problem happens with your credit card, you can dispute a charge before you pay. Alternatively, check with your bank and see if they have a bill-pay service.
    • toomuchtodo 11y ago
      Most payees who you pay bills online with charge a fee to take a credit card (utilities, etc).
      • JoshTriplett 11y ago
        Interesting; I haven't seen that before. Thanks.
    • mratzloff 11y ago
      I have multiple checking accounts to avoid this problem.
  • azazo 11y ago
    Or pay bills with a credit card and get points on the card for your trouble. Plus an extra month to pay.
    • mratzloff 11y ago
      This is the only thing that would make it worthwhile. I have been wanting to get an Alaska Airlines card...
• asn0 11y ago
  The only way to opt out is to cancel your Paypal account before July 1 From the BGR article referenced by WaPo (http://bgr.com/2015/06/02/paypal-user-agreement-robocall-robodial-autotext-text/ http://bgr.com/2015/06/02/paypal-user-agreement-robocall-rob...)
• vinbreau 11y ago
  My wife has a small home business that ships internationally. PayPal is the best method for taking payments from her clients. She generates more revenue through that than from credit cards. Without any alternative, well, this just sucks.
  • toomuchtodo 11y ago
    Switch your number on file to a Twilio number.
    • wlphoenix 11y ago
      There's a pretty solid chance PayPal will have predicted these switches, and keep the old numbers on file. Because the new policy allows for calling no matter how they get your number, it probably won't help.
      • toomuchtodo 11y ago
        Can't hurt to spend a few minutes putting a Twiml file in S3 and buying a number for $1. I closed my Paypal account today because of this. Not everyone can do that though.
• hwstar 11y ago
  Go ahead Paypal! Just try and get past my voice/dtmf Captcha system on my Asterisk PBX with your robocaller. I whitelist friends and family so they don't have to go through the Captcha if they call. So far, I've received no friends and family robocalls, but receiving one eventually would not be surprising.
  • fapjacks 11y ago
    This is awesome. I am pretty familiar with Asterisk and can think of a couple ways to do this, but I would love to see a blog post or something detailing how you accomplished this.
    • rosser 11y ago
      Seconded! Please take moment to write up how you accomplished this wizardry, for the benefit of mankind. (Or at least the Asterisk-using subset thereof...)
      • hwstar 11y ago
        1. The following macro does the captcha: [macro-captcha] exten => s,1,Answer exten => s,n(retry),Wait(2); exten => s,n,Set(pin3=${RAND(100,999)}); exten => s,n,Playback(reallivehuman); exten => s,n,Wait(1); exten => s,n,SayDigits(${pin3}); exten => s,n,Read(pinent,,4) exten => s,n,GotoIf($["${pin3}" = "${pinent}"]?ok:retry) exten => s,n(ok),Playback(queue-thankyou); 2. The whitelist jumps around the Captcha macro in the incoming context: exten => 6199111111,n,GotoIf($["${CALLERID(num)}" = "2024561414"]?whitelist) exten => 6199111111,n,Macro(captcha); * Do captcha exten => 6199111111,n(whitelist),Goto(inbound-calls-main,s,1); This also buys me peace and quiet during the few days leading up to election day. (Political robocalls are what caused me to implement it).
        • fapjacks 11y ago
          Perfect! Your hard work has subsequently been stolen and implemented elsewhere. Thank you!
  • 11y ago
• orbitingpluto 11y ago
  The "National Do Not Call List" can be useful in Canada. Paypal may only contact you if you've requested info in the past 6 months or used their service in the past 18 months. If they call, you can demand that you be put onto their internal Do Not Call list. They must honour that and you can make a complaint if they do not. http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/info_sht/t1031.htm http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/info_sht/t1031.htm
  • Shivetya 11y ago
    do politicians and some charities get a free pass when it comes to ignoring it like they do in the US?
    • orbitingpluto 11y ago
      They do.
    • jakejake 11y ago
      The do not call list has an exception for robo-campaign call. Isn't it interesting that our lawmakers would put in such an exception?
  • dblohm7 11y ago
    Couldn't having an account be construed as having used their service, though?
• derefr 11y ago
  Am I the only one who thinks this is likely for the purpose of additional Know-Your-Customer preverification, rather than for advertising? If Paypal can be sure that fewer of the accounts pumping money through the system are doing so for anonymous multi-identity money-laundering, then the horrifying "we froze your account because started getting Real Money through it and that's suspicious" step can happen less often. Though, thinking about it, even just switching to mandatory phone-based 2FA (with options to either call or text) would technically require a "we can robocall you" clause. The 2FA system is a robot!
  • jakejake 11y ago
    I wouldn't have a problem with that but the terms specifically mention surveys and special offers.
    • derefr 11y ago
      Hmm, you're right. > We may place such calls or texts to ... (v) poll your opinions through surveys or questionnaires, (vii) contact you with offers and promotions; I'm pretty certain this same language is in my agreement with my bank, and with the VISA corporation. I rarely get calls from them (other than the occasional "hey was it you who made that e-transfer from your account just now") but I do get their spammy stuff via email. I think they prefer email as a channel for sending this stuff as long as they know your email, but will send it to your phone if they don't know it. I don't know how that would work with Paypal, who obviously knows your email. I'm pretty certain, on a second reading, that the original purpose of this is actually very clear, though: > We won’t share your phone number with third parties for their purposes without your consent, but may share your phone numbers with our Affiliates or with our service providers, such as billing or collections companies, who we have contracted with to assist us in pursuing our rights or performing our obligations under this User Agreement, our policies, applicable law, or any other agreement we may have with you. They want to be able to pursue people who have negative Paypal balances. Right now, a lot of them don't have a card attached to their account, or only have a prepaid card or something, so they have no idea who they are and can't really get their money back.
• meesterdude 11y ago
  um, what? Jeeze. I like the convenience of paypal, but I also like it when my phone doesn't ring with nonsense. realllly don't want to have to cancel my account, but looks like no alternatives if they're going to play it that way. So be it! I'm actually really pissed off by this. If it wasn't clear. Are they TRYING to drive customers away? there's literally no way I can accept that shit. Aaaaand canceled! had a paypal since I got on the internet, crazy that it's gone now. Guess I'll have to keep my wallet by the computer now.
• scraymer 11y ago
  I'm out!
• Havoc 11y ago
  Why is Paypal always going out of its way to be horrible?