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Isn't this just straight-up illegal? The H1B program disallows hiring foreign workers and paying them less than the equivalent rate for US workers. While there
by wycats 11y ago
Isn't this just straight-up illegal?
The H1B program disallows hiring foreign workers and paying them less than the equivalent rate for US workers. While there may be some debate about whether tech companies find ways to skirt the law, "we are laying off US workers to save money and replacing them with H1B workers" seems to flagrantly violate the law. No?
- prostoalex 11y agoIt's the "prevailing" wage. So it's likely beneficial for the company to let go of the senior staff who are above prevailing, and keep the junior staff who are below.
- deskamess 11y agoThat to an extent... furthermore, by definition, the H1B candidate has skills that are found lacking in the market. But now they end up needing training.
- TulliusCicero 11y agoI think the issue is that the new employees were not employees of Disney, but rather they were employees of a consulting company that Disney contracted out to. Presumably those employees had been hired by the consulting companies as H1B workers ahead of time, thus you can't tie their hiring directly to the later layoffs at a different company. Basically, it's a loophole that should probably be closed.
- dennisgorelik 11y agoAre you supporting discrimination against foreigners?
- yellowapple 11y agoIf the parent commenter was actually supporting discrimination against foreigners (hint: said commenter wasn't), you wouldn't have needed to phrase that as a question.
- dennisgorelik 11y agoIf he does not support discrimination against foreigners, then why does he suggest to use government resource to limit foreigners' ability to do work for US corporations?
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- saalweachter 11y agoH1Bs are a way to discriminate against all workers, foreign and domestic. The domestic workers are competing in a larger hiring pool, lowering their wages. The foreign workers are operating with heavy restrictions on their employment and stay in the country, lowering their wages. The better thing to do is to lower barriers to immigration, both temporary and permanent, not play one labor pool against another to the benefit of capital.
- dennisgorelik 11y agoYou got it wrong. Discrimination is created by the laws that prohibit foreigners to work in the US by default. Then H1b and other immigration "holes" soften that discrimination. TulliusCicero wants to remove "holes" that allow foreigners to do work for the US companies. Such removal of "holes" would in effect make discrimination against foreigners more severe.
- yopodtoh 11y agoDiscrimination against foreigners is the law. In the US, and just about every other nation, this is the case. Many believe that a good government should consistently enforce its good laws and change its bad ones. So either the government should enforce the visa laws, to the benefit of some US citizens and at the expense of some foreign workers and their employers, or change the law to allow foreigners different rights with respect to the US labor market.
- Frondo 11y agoWhen they're using taken advantage of, to facilitate corporations' taking advantage of American workers, yes, that is something I support fully.
- glesica 11y agoYes. And why not? That's the whole point of countries. Americans are discriminated against by India, so we discriminate against Indians. Same with the English, Canadians, Chinese, Finns, Malaysians, name a country. Is it a lovely, wonderful system? Absolutely not. But I'm sick of being told I have to love the H1-B program or I'm somehow racist. Here's what I would support: if another country wants its citizens to be able to work in the US, they can offer to let Americans work there. Every American who goes to work there means one person from there can come work here, free and clear, but the numbers have to stay in lock-step, the net delta can't be greater than one for a given year.
- dennisgorelik 11y ago> why not? Because unfair discrimination makes it worse for everyone involved: workers (cannot get jobs), employers (cannot hire qualified people), consumers (higher prices). > That's the whole point of countries. Of course not. Countries have their own legal system which could be good (competition between various legal systems), but there is no good reason to discriminate on the government level against foreigners. Even if other countries discriminate against Americans, the US would still benefit by NOT discriminating against citizens of these countries.
- glesica 11y ago> Even if other countries discriminate against Americans, the US would still benefit by NOT discriminating against citizens of these countries. Some Americans would benefit. Others would suffer because competition would be tougher. And of course no one wants a social safety net because that would reward laziness or some other awful protestant work ethic bullshit. If unlimited immigration came along with a robust social safety net (at least single-payer healthcare and a basic income guarantee) I would be right there with you.
- nomercy400 11y agoIt's more like "We are laying off US workers to save money and replace them with a (cheaper) outsourcing company already operating in the US".
- bsg75 11y agoCheaper and inferior. As with all things, you get the talent you pay for.
- misterbee 11y agoThis is not true. You pay supply/demand. Someone with less expenses, or visa constraints, or other geographic constraints, but equally talented, will accept a lower wage.
- bsg75 11y ago"Equally talented" is where your academic theory falls flat. Any engineer who accepts lower wages than their predecessor is either of lower talent and experience, or is by some situation forced to accept less. "Forced" being a key term. Talent cannot be measured with the same formula used for guns and butter.