5 ms·

Apple Boss Tim Cook Hits Out at Facebook and Google

54 points by SimplyUseless 11y ago

geekam 11y ago
Is Apple not collecting any user data?
- travjones 11y ago
  They are for sure. It's like if you fart and instead of owning up to your smelly fart you say, "Ewww. Who farted?" Or, you blame the fart on another person (in this case, Google) to distract people from identifying you as the smelly farter.
  - headShrinker 11y ago
    Huh, the fart metaphor really doesn't hold up all.
    - travjones 11y ago
      Yeah, you're probably right. I won't quit my day job. I saw farting as the collection of user data described in the article and thought the analogy was kind of funny.
- josephagoss 11y ago
  I think that if they are collecting user data it's only due to Government pressure. I can't imagine any business related reason that would require Apple to store and harvest user data. When you make such a large profit on hardware, you don't need to scrounge around for bits and bytes to sell to the advertisers. Of course this excludes the minimum data they need to maintain warranties and your payment details.
  - bad_user 11y ago
    They can't not collect data. They've got your iMessage/Facetime chat logs, they've got your stored unencrypted data in iCloud, they've got the apps that you're using and probably their settings or saved meta-data as well. Speaking of iCloud, they've got your contacts as well. Your iPhone is collecting your location and the Wifi networks around it and sending it to Apple's servers. At some point the iPhone was saving your location history in a local file as well, ready to be inspected by whomever got a hold of it. The operating system is completely closed / proprietary, so if it has back-doors in it, nobody will ever know. I'm glad that Tim Cook is raising these issues and I realize that behind every piece of data they have there's a justification for it. But in our country we have a saying which applies here: he ate no onions and his mouth stinks not.
    - k-mcgrady 11y ago
      >> "They've got your iMessage/Facetime chat logs" Both of those services are encrypted so what useful data would they have on it? I think Tim Cook's point is that they collect data solely to improve your user experience. If they stopped tomorrow they would continue making money. Other companies collect data they need for user experience plus data advertisers will find valuable so they can sell it/exploit it. If they stopped collecting data tomorrow they would die unless they radically changed their business model.
      - bad_user 11y ago
        That is correct, iMessage is encrypted, however they still have your metadata (who you're speaking with, timestamps) and because of how iMessage works (asymmetric cryptography with multiple public keys managed by Apple), it's easy on Apple's side to attach a new public key and device to your account such that anybody can then listen to the messages sent to you. And so, because you can't settle on a specific public key with the person you're talking with, the model is kind of broken, although it is better than nothing. XMPP / OTR is a much better option for encrypted chats. It's fairly user friendly as well. Unfortunately big companies owning chat services are not fans of open standards.
        11y ago
- headShrinker 11y ago
  I don't think the problem is so much collecting data, more what agreement the company collecting the data has with third party corporations and governments. Also, the fact that Apple includes full disk encryption for OS X, and encrypts all communications on iOS storage and in transit with personal keys, is a pretty good sign Apple is taking personal privacy seriously. Facebook and Google haven't made such steps.
  - fpgeek 11y ago
    All the encryption in the world doesn't make any difference if it's easy to steal your account. Unlike Facebook or Google, Apple practically had to be shamed into fixing an easily-gamed account reset process and adding two-factor authentication support (and then took their own sweet time rolling it out across their services) and had to be shamed again into adding rate-limiting on logins. Not to mention their spotty track record on other security issues (e.g."goto fail"). That doesn't mean that Apple hasn't done some things that are good for personal privacy. But their broader track record makes it clear that Apple only takes the appearance of personal privacy seriously. The reality, on the other hand, easily takes a back seat to things like UI simplicity unless that missing reality starts creating appearance problems.
- boroboro 11y ago
  Everyone is collecting user data for targeting and segmentation in marketing. Not sure Tim Cook knows everything that is going on at Apple. I've worked directly with several CEOs of larger companies and none new everything that was going on.
- djthorpe 11y ago
  Oh, I think they are collecting data just like all the other providers mentioned, and they are sometimes sharing it with 3rd parties. Ie, https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/2wzmmr/everything_youve_ever_said_to_siricortana_has https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/2wzmmr/everythi...
nvk 11y ago
So does that mean I will be able to use PGP natively on my iOS Mail app soon?
- dijit 11y ago
  That would be spankingly good. Apple tend to put a lot of polish on things and an Apple mandated key service which can provide an authoritative list of who is trusted and such would be a big push to pgp everywhere. not to mention the "click once, you can now sign your emails" UX would be lovely to have. And with the icloud accounts system you have a method of having some (although minor) trust that the person making the private keys, is, who they say they are. it would be very easy for apple to have a fully integrated pgp solution. :D
- devinegan 11y ago
  GPGtools (plugin) works nicely with native Mac mail https://gpgtools.org/ https://gpgtools.org/
  - nvk 11y ago
    Yes, but what about iOS?
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
plg 11y ago
see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9652298 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9652298
blinkingled 11y ago
My problem with this is that it is pure marketing play. Apple isn't doing anything really great to enhance user privacy in absolutes - all they are doing is having all your data and not letting anyone else benefit from it - right now. Which is to say Apple still does benefit from your data in direct or indirect ways. They are still, by default recording all your search queries on OS X. And Apple supporters' justification for that is well, Apple isn't a company whose revenue and profits are mostly dependent on ads. But if you look at facts, Apple wants to get a big pie of everything, not just hardware. And they go out of their way to try and get it - book sales (ref: antitrust case), iAd, Maps, Streaming Music - the list goes on and on. Given this, how do you claim Apple won't use your recorded search queries or music you listened to (Genius Recommendations) or location data or whatever else they record and we don't yet know about - to increase their profits? They sure as hell will - that's why they are collecting the data in first place. Google is doing the same thing by showing you ads that may be of interest to you, analyzing your Google Voicemails to increase their speech recognition accuracy, making their maps data more robust by giving you the best Navigation app for free, giving you useful reminders by looking at your email - they are doing it now and in return they are providing you with great products you can optionally use. To claim that Google is doing something evil while Apple is not purely because they make money on hardware is naive and too simplistic. (Case in point - Microsoft made most of their money selling you boxed software - now a days they want you to use their services and will provide you with a free upgrade to Windows and free online Office suite down the line. They did not care about your data before, but now they do!) Fact is you can either place reasonable trust on Google or Apple and continue to be part of the modern world or just drop all your devices, bank accounts, cards, get a car from 1970s and move off the grid. As much as it sounds harsh there isn't really such a thing as 100% privacy. Your data will always be vulnerable to becoming public in various degrees and to various effects.
- k-mcgrady 11y ago
  >> "Apple isn't doing anything really great to enhance user privacy in absolutes - all they are doing is having all your data and not letting anyone else benefit from it - right now." 1. iMessage and FaceTime data is encrypted. 2. Having my data and not letting anyone else benefit from it is 100x better than what most tech companies are doing. Also they don't have 'all' my data. They take what they need to improve my experience. Other companies hoover up everything they can because they need it to sell. >> "They are still, by default recording all your search queries on OS X." To improve the spotlight user experience. They're not selling my data and I can easily disable it. >> "They sure as hell will - that's why they are collecting the data in first place." No. The data the collect is to improve the user experience. They have no need to sell it - they're the biggest company on the planet. >> "As much as it sounds harsh there isn't really such a thing as 100% privacy." There never has been but there is a big difference between what Apple offers privacy wise and what Google or Facebook offer.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
revscat 11y ago
Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9650289 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9650289
jonknee 11y ago
It's a clever pivot by Tim Cook. He figured out that Apple is awful at selling advertising and has turned this into a marketing feature. Steve Jobs was very excited about advertising, remember him describing iAds as a life changing experience that users would love? It completely failed, but hey. https://youtu.be/KwVaILbTqS8?t=45m55s https://youtu.be/KwVaILbTqS8?t=45m55s
- mrcwinn 11y ago
  It is true that it is failed, and that video looks silly in retrospect. But it's also true that Apple has always had an entirely different business model than, say, Google. This isn't a new "marketing feature." Apple has never sought to make large sums of money by selling user data.
  - qwerty-- 11y ago
    Repeating a lie that Google sells user data doesn't make it right. Stop getting brainwashed by Apple and learn facts and learn how Google makes money. It doesn't sell your personal data.
dude_abides 11y ago
This would have sounded credible if Apple didn't have an iAds business that mines user clicks and offers retargetting ads to paying customers. Instead, now, this sounds like Microsoft's Scroogle campaign, where it accused Google of doing all the things that Bing also did, but wasn't successful at doing.
- k-mcgrady 11y ago
  "One very small part of our business does serve advertisers, and that’s iAd. We built an advertising network because some app developers depend on that business model, and we want to support them as well as a free iTunes Radio service. iAd sticks to the same privacy policy that applies to every other Apple product. It doesn’t get data from Health and HomeKit, Maps, Siri, iMessage, your call history, or any iCloud service like Contacts or Mail, and you can always just opt out altogether." https://www.apple.com/privacy/ https://www.apple.com/privacy/
  - vilmosi 11y ago
    So how exactly does iAds work without any data?
  - dewitt 11y ago
    Google has a one-click opt-out as well: http://www.google.com/settings/ads http://www.google.com/settings/ads I remain opted in, fwiw.
    - k-mcgrady 11y ago
      I know about that but that's simply an opt-out of interest based ads - they're likely still collecting your data in case you enable the ads again.
      - dewitt 11y ago
        You might be also interested in https://myaccount.google.com https://myaccount.google.com, which offers full visibility and fine-grained control into everything in one place. I wasn't personally involved in building it, but in my opinion it's really impressive. I wish other companies would do the same.
btbuildem 11y ago
Classic kettle and pot
josefresco 11y ago
"Our business is based on selling products, not on having information about you. You are not our product." Pretty easy to say "we don't do this" when it's not even a significant part of your revenue stream. Sort of like if Zuckerberg said "Our business is based on selling advertising, not on selling premium, high markup shiny things".
omegafail 11y ago
Any links to the actual video?
minthd 11y ago
In reality using Apple products reduces your privacy. How ? If you use Google's products(and who doesn't use Google Search ? ) , Google already knows plenty about you. And even if you don't use Google products, Google knows plenty about you, since it's tracking software is installed in large percentage of sites, etc. And if you add machine learning on top of that , the amount that Google knows about you is great - even if you use Apple's products. In reality, by using Apple's products, you don't gain privacy , you lose privacy - now two companies know a lot about you, instead of one. Also this exposes your data for security bugs from both companies - thus making it easier for third parties to go at it.
- dokument 11y ago
  or you know, stuff like this [1] "new remote exploit leaves most macs vulnerable to permanent backdooring" [1] http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/06/new-remote-exploit-leaves-most-macs-vulnerable-to-permanent-backdooring/ http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/06/new-remote-exploit-l...
- themgt 11y ago
  Really? All your documents, finances, photos, music, movies, messages, health data, viewing patterns - might as well just give that to Google since they already have your search queries? That doesn't make any sense.
  - minthd 11y ago
    You underestimate the amount of intelligence Google's search data + smart machine learning can deduce about you. Remember how in the sherlock holmes stories, sherlock can deduce huge amount about people , from tiny clues ? How much do you think sherlock could deduce from Google searches - where people usually bare their souls ,on ALL their issues, from the insignificant to the critical? Machine learning can, to some extent , be that sherlock, but if someone with the right investigantional skills diggs through your search data - he can be sherlock too. And since Google does know all that about you, in most cases ,i think that keeping the rest of the data won't be the thing that "saves" you - maybe with the exception of your browsing patterns - but since Google has trackers in most web sites - they already know a large part of your browsing patterns - so you're quite defenseless there. TL;DR - Google search knows a huge amount about you, And with that data, sherlock holmes(or a decent investigator, or probably an AI) can know almost everything on you!
comrade1 11y ago
If Apple is serious, the next step will be to open up the source for the encryption parts of iMessage, FaceTime, etc with the ability to verify the binaries, much like PGP used to do for their software. And also to verify the keys being used in the messaging to make sure additional keys aren't being added by apple.
- therobot24 11y ago
  if only
  - comrade1 11y ago
    They don't have to open up the entire product - only the libraries for the encryption part.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
dharma1 11y ago
Google's and Facebook's business models revolve around analysing user data and using it for advertising. Apple makes money from hardware. I think most users are aware of this, and in return for free or low cost products they sign away part of their privacy. The reason Google Photos offers unlimited storage, Gmail is free etc is they can deep learn the f... out of their users to target their ads better. Apple's privacy benefit is more of a side effect of their business model than a principle they design their products based on.

54 points by SimplyUseless 11y ago

geekam 11y ago

Is Apple not collecting any user data?

travjones 11y ago
They are for sure. It's like if you fart and instead of owning up to your smelly fart you say, "Ewww. Who farted?" Or, you blame the fart on another person (in this case, Google) to distract people from identifying you as the smelly farter.
- headShrinker 11y ago
  Huh, the fart metaphor really doesn't hold up all.
  - travjones 11y ago
    Yeah, you're probably right. I won't quit my day job. I saw farting as the collection of user data described in the article and thought the analogy was kind of funny.
josephagoss 11y ago
I think that if they are collecting user data it's only due to Government pressure. I can't imagine any business related reason that would require Apple to store and harvest user data. When you make such a large profit on hardware, you don't need to scrounge around for bits and bytes to sell to the advertisers. Of course this excludes the minimum data they need to maintain warranties and your payment details.
- bad_user 11y ago
  They can't not collect data. They've got your iMessage/Facetime chat logs, they've got your stored unencrypted data in iCloud, they've got the apps that you're using and probably their settings or saved meta-data as well. Speaking of iCloud, they've got your contacts as well. Your iPhone is collecting your location and the Wifi networks around it and sending it to Apple's servers. At some point the iPhone was saving your location history in a local file as well, ready to be inspected by whomever got a hold of it. The operating system is completely closed / proprietary, so if it has back-doors in it, nobody will ever know. I'm glad that Tim Cook is raising these issues and I realize that behind every piece of data they have there's a justification for it. But in our country we have a saying which applies here: he ate no onions and his mouth stinks not.
  - k-mcgrady 11y ago
    >> "They've got your iMessage/Facetime chat logs" Both of those services are encrypted so what useful data would they have on it? I think Tim Cook's point is that they collect data solely to improve your user experience. If they stopped tomorrow they would continue making money. Other companies collect data they need for user experience plus data advertisers will find valuable so they can sell it/exploit it. If they stopped collecting data tomorrow they would die unless they radically changed their business model.
    - bad_user 11y ago
      That is correct, iMessage is encrypted, however they still have your metadata (who you're speaking with, timestamps) and because of how iMessage works (asymmetric cryptography with multiple public keys managed by Apple), it's easy on Apple's side to attach a new public key and device to your account such that anybody can then listen to the messages sent to you. And so, because you can't settle on a specific public key with the person you're talking with, the model is kind of broken, although it is better than nothing. XMPP / OTR is a much better option for encrypted chats. It's fairly user friendly as well. Unfortunately big companies owning chat services are not fans of open standards.
      - 11y ago
headShrinker 11y ago
I don't think the problem is so much collecting data, more what agreement the company collecting the data has with third party corporations and governments. Also, the fact that Apple includes full disk encryption for OS X, and encrypts all communications on iOS storage and in transit with personal keys, is a pretty good sign Apple is taking personal privacy seriously. Facebook and Google haven't made such steps.
- fpgeek 11y ago
  All the encryption in the world doesn't make any difference if it's easy to steal your account. Unlike Facebook or Google, Apple practically had to be shamed into fixing an easily-gamed account reset process and adding two-factor authentication support (and then took their own sweet time rolling it out across their services) and had to be shamed again into adding rate-limiting on logins. Not to mention their spotty track record on other security issues (e.g."goto fail"). That doesn't mean that Apple hasn't done some things that are good for personal privacy. But their broader track record makes it clear that Apple only takes the appearance of personal privacy seriously. The reality, on the other hand, easily takes a back seat to things like UI simplicity unless that missing reality starts creating appearance problems.
boroboro 11y ago
Everyone is collecting user data for targeting and segmentation in marketing. Not sure Tim Cook knows everything that is going on at Apple. I've worked directly with several CEOs of larger companies and none new everything that was going on.
djthorpe 11y ago
Oh, I think they are collecting data just like all the other providers mentioned, and they are sometimes sharing it with 3rd parties. Ie, https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/2wzmmr/everything_youve_ever_said_to_siricortana_has https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/2wzmmr/everythi...

nvk 11y ago

So does that mean I will be able to use PGP natively on my iOS Mail app soon?

dijit 11y ago
That would be spankingly good. Apple tend to put a lot of polish on things and an Apple mandated key service which can provide an authoritative list of who is trusted and such would be a big push to pgp everywhere. not to mention the "click once, you can now sign your emails" UX would be lovely to have. And with the icloud accounts system you have a method of having some (although minor) trust that the person making the private keys, is, who they say they are. it would be very easy for apple to have a fully integrated pgp solution. :D
devinegan 11y ago
GPGtools (plugin) works nicely with native Mac mail https://gpgtools.org/ https://gpgtools.org/
- nvk 11y ago
  Yes, but what about iOS?

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

plg 11y ago

see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9652298 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9652298

blinkingled 11y ago

My problem with this is that it is pure marketing play. Apple isn't doing anything really great to enhance user privacy in absolutes - all they are doing is having all your data and not letting anyone else benefit from it - right now. Which is to say Apple still does benefit from your data in direct or indirect ways. They are still, by default recording all your search queries on OS X. And Apple supporters' justification for that is well, Apple isn't a company whose revenue and profits are mostly dependent on ads. But if you look at facts, Apple wants to get a big pie of everything, not just hardware. And they go out of their way to try and get it - book sales (ref: antitrust case), iAd, Maps, Streaming Music - the list goes on and on. Given this, how do you claim Apple won't use your recorded search queries or music you listened to (Genius Recommendations) or location data or whatever else they record and we don't yet know about - to increase their profits? They sure as hell will - that's why they are collecting the data in first place. Google is doing the same thing by showing you ads that may be of interest to you, analyzing your Google Voicemails to increase their speech recognition accuracy, making their maps data more robust by giving you the best Navigation app for free, giving you useful reminders by looking at your email - they are doing it now and in return they are providing you with great products you can optionally use. To claim that Google is doing something evil while Apple is not purely because they make money on hardware is naive and too simplistic. (Case in point - Microsoft made most of their money selling you boxed software - now a days they want you to use their services and will provide you with a free upgrade to Windows and free online Office suite down the line. They did not care about your data before, but now they do!) Fact is you can either place reasonable trust on Google or Apple and continue to be part of the modern world or just drop all your devices, bank accounts, cards, get a car from 1970s and move off the grid. As much as it sounds harsh there isn't really such a thing as 100% privacy. Your data will always be vulnerable to becoming public in various degrees and to various effects.

k-mcgrady 11y ago
>> "Apple isn't doing anything really great to enhance user privacy in absolutes - all they are doing is having all your data and not letting anyone else benefit from it - right now." 1. iMessage and FaceTime data is encrypted. 2. Having my data and not letting anyone else benefit from it is 100x better than what most tech companies are doing. Also they don't have 'all' my data. They take what they need to improve my experience. Other companies hoover up everything they can because they need it to sell. >> "They are still, by default recording all your search queries on OS X." To improve the spotlight user experience. They're not selling my data and I can easily disable it. >> "They sure as hell will - that's why they are collecting the data in first place." No. The data the collect is to improve the user experience. They have no need to sell it - they're the biggest company on the planet. >> "As much as it sounds harsh there isn't really such a thing as 100% privacy." There never has been but there is a big difference between what Apple offers privacy wise and what Google or Facebook offer.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

revscat 11y ago

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9650289 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9650289

jonknee 11y ago

It's a clever pivot by Tim Cook. He figured out that Apple is awful at selling advertising and has turned this into a marketing feature. Steve Jobs was very excited about advertising, remember him describing iAds as a life changing experience that users would love? It completely failed, but hey. https://youtu.be/KwVaILbTqS8?t=45m55s https://youtu.be/KwVaILbTqS8?t=45m55s

mrcwinn 11y ago
It is true that it is failed, and that video looks silly in retrospect. But it's also true that Apple has always had an entirely different business model than, say, Google. This isn't a new "marketing feature." Apple has never sought to make large sums of money by selling user data.
- qwerty-- 11y ago
  Repeating a lie that Google sells user data doesn't make it right. Stop getting brainwashed by Apple and learn facts and learn how Google makes money. It doesn't sell your personal data.

dude_abides 11y ago

This would have sounded credible if Apple didn't have an iAds business that mines user clicks and offers retargetting ads to paying customers. Instead, now, this sounds like Microsoft's Scroogle campaign, where it accused Google of doing all the things that Bing also did, but wasn't successful at doing.

k-mcgrady 11y ago
"One very small part of our business does serve advertisers, and that’s iAd. We built an advertising network because some app developers depend on that business model, and we want to support them as well as a free iTunes Radio service. iAd sticks to the same privacy policy that applies to every other Apple product. It doesn’t get data from Health and HomeKit, Maps, Siri, iMessage, your call history, or any iCloud service like Contacts or Mail, and you can always just opt out altogether." https://www.apple.com/privacy/ https://www.apple.com/privacy/
- vilmosi 11y ago
  So how exactly does iAds work without any data?
- dewitt 11y ago
  Google has a one-click opt-out as well: http://www.google.com/settings/ads http://www.google.com/settings/ads I remain opted in, fwiw.
  - k-mcgrady 11y ago
    I know about that but that's simply an opt-out of interest based ads - they're likely still collecting your data in case you enable the ads again.
    - dewitt 11y ago
      You might be also interested in https://myaccount.google.com https://myaccount.google.com, which offers full visibility and fine-grained control into everything in one place. I wasn't personally involved in building it, but in my opinion it's really impressive. I wish other companies would do the same.

btbuildem 11y ago

Classic kettle and pot

josefresco 11y ago

"Our business is based on selling products, not on having information about you. You are not our product." Pretty easy to say "we don't do this" when it's not even a significant part of your revenue stream. Sort of like if Zuckerberg said "Our business is based on selling advertising, not on selling premium, high markup shiny things".

omegafail 11y ago

Any links to the actual video?

minthd 11y ago

In reality using Apple products reduces your privacy. How ? If you use Google's products(and who doesn't use Google Search ? ) , Google already knows plenty about you. And even if you don't use Google products, Google knows plenty about you, since it's tracking software is installed in large percentage of sites, etc. And if you add machine learning on top of that , the amount that Google knows about you is great - even if you use Apple's products. In reality, by using Apple's products, you don't gain privacy , you lose privacy - now two companies know a lot about you, instead of one. Also this exposes your data for security bugs from both companies - thus making it easier for third parties to go at it.

dokument 11y ago
or you know, stuff like this [1] "new remote exploit leaves most macs vulnerable to permanent backdooring" [1] http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/06/new-remote-exploit-leaves-most-macs-vulnerable-to-permanent-backdooring/ http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/06/new-remote-exploit-l...
themgt 11y ago
Really? All your documents, finances, photos, music, movies, messages, health data, viewing patterns - might as well just give that to Google since they already have your search queries? That doesn't make any sense.
- minthd 11y ago
  You underestimate the amount of intelligence Google's search data + smart machine learning can deduce about you. Remember how in the sherlock holmes stories, sherlock can deduce huge amount about people , from tiny clues ? How much do you think sherlock could deduce from Google searches - where people usually bare their souls ,on ALL their issues, from the insignificant to the critical? Machine learning can, to some extent , be that sherlock, but if someone with the right investigantional skills diggs through your search data - he can be sherlock too. And since Google does know all that about you, in most cases ,i think that keeping the rest of the data won't be the thing that "saves" you - maybe with the exception of your browsing patterns - but since Google has trackers in most web sites - they already know a large part of your browsing patterns - so you're quite defenseless there. TL;DR - Google search knows a huge amount about you, And with that data, sherlock holmes(or a decent investigator, or probably an AI) can know almost everything on you!

comrade1 11y ago

If Apple is serious, the next step will be to open up the source for the encryption parts of iMessage, FaceTime, etc with the ability to verify the binaries, much like PGP used to do for their software. And also to verify the keys being used in the messaging to make sure additional keys aren't being added by apple.

therobot24 11y ago
if only
- comrade1 11y ago
  They don't have to open up the entire product - only the libraries for the encryption part.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

dharma1 11y ago

Google's and Facebook's business models revolve around analysing user data and using it for advertising. Apple makes money from hardware. I think most users are aware of this, and in return for free or low cost products they sign away part of their privacy. The reason Google Photos offers unlimited storage, Gmail is free etc is they can deep learn the f... out of their users to target their ads better. Apple's privacy benefit is more of a side effect of their business model than a principle they design their products based on.