5 ms·

Embrace, extend, extinguish.

by philtar 11y ago

kristofferR 11y ago
"No matter what MS does, it is always wrong."
- emilsedgh 11y ago
  Unless they gain our trust back. I admit, they seem to be moving in an interesting direction. But up to this point, they are just trying to 'embrace'. Lets see if they will 'extinguish'.
pluma 11y ago
Emphasis being on "embrace" at this point. It's too early to cry wolf yet -- there's not even an obvious way to get from here to "extend".
- blumkvist 11y ago
  Depends on where you look in the product portfolio :)
  - ZenoArrow 11y ago
    Yeah. I've been really impressed with Microsoft recently. However, reading about the Secure Boot rules for Windows 10 (the Windows 8 rules were fine IMO) left a negative reaction. On the whole I still think they're doing much better than they were.
- th0waway 11y ago
  not to early to cry wolf, but given MS' history, I would not put it past them to try something.
- 0x0 11y ago
  Sure there is. Add an ActiveDirectory specific auth type to the protocol and watch all non-windows clients fail to log in :)
  - mhurron 11y ago
    Just like they killed ldap and kerberos so non-MS OS's couldn't use AD. Oh wait ... In fact, what has MS actually extinguiushed?
    - dec0dedab0de 11y ago
      They tried to extinguish the web, and failed. That is enough to not trust them for a long while still.
    - pgeorgi 11y ago
      The kerberos described in http://web.archive.org/web/20140222133423/http://www.networkworld.com/news/2000/0511kerberos.html http://web.archive.org/web/20140222133423/http://www.network...?
      - sudioStudio64 11y ago
        That was from 2000. Since then they have released all of their protocols as open spec documents. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/openspecifications/default https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/openspecifications/default Their kerberos implementation works with heimdal and mit. They used an optinal field to include group membership data so that authorization decisions could be made from the contents of the ticket. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/gg604662.aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/gg604662.aspx I'm just saying. Times have changed. Will they ever be as open as an open source project run by volunteers? No. Have they dramatically improved their position in response to the very real criticisms of their past behavior. Yes.
        atonse 11y ago
        > Will they ever be as open as an open source project run by volunteers? No. The ASP.NET and other .NET teams beg to differ. Their code (not some mirror) is hosted on Github and Apache licensed. You can fork it just like any other open source project. So yes, parts of Microsoft's tech is actually free and open, for all practical definitions of free and open (the GNU people's pedantic arguments about Apache not withstanding)
- dec0dedab0de 11y ago
  It's too early to cry wolf yet Wrong. It's too late to automatically assume they've changed their game. They have been making some impressive moves lately, but that doesn't mean they're suddenly trustworthy. there's not even an obvious way to get from here to "extend" just look at all the nonstandard SSH authentication methods that exist across networking devices.
weavie 11y ago
It's open source. More like, embrace, extend... their pull requests get declined.
- ed_blackburn 11y ago
  Absolutely. If they fork it, it defeats the purpose - getting Windows Server to play nice in heterogeneous environments - if their contributions aren't compatible with the ethos, direction or quality of what is required, they will not be accepted.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
zaphar 11y ago
When you want to know where a company is heading look at the past history of their current leadership. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish was the modus operandi of Gates and Ballmer. Satya Nadella is now at the helm and he does not have the same history nor is he moving in the same directions. Satya is a different person and I'm holding judgement till I see the fruits of his labor and how far his leadership trickles down.

Embrace, extend, extinguish.

by philtar 11y ago

Embrace, extend, extinguish.

kristofferR 11y ago

"No matter what MS does, it is always wrong."

emilsedgh 11y ago
Unless they gain our trust back. I admit, they seem to be moving in an interesting direction. But up to this point, they are just trying to 'embrace'. Lets see if they will 'extinguish'.

pluma 11y ago

Emphasis being on "embrace" at this point. It's too early to cry wolf yet -- there's not even an obvious way to get from here to "extend".

blumkvist 11y ago
Depends on where you look in the product portfolio :)
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  Yeah. I've been really impressed with Microsoft recently. However, reading about the Secure Boot rules for Windows 10 (the Windows 8 rules were fine IMO) left a negative reaction. On the whole I still think they're doing much better than they were.
th0waway 11y ago
not to early to cry wolf, but given MS' history, I would not put it past them to try something.
0x0 11y ago
Sure there is. Add an ActiveDirectory specific auth type to the protocol and watch all non-windows clients fail to log in :)
- mhurron 11y ago
  Just like they killed ldap and kerberos so non-MS OS's couldn't use AD. Oh wait ... In fact, what has MS actually extinguiushed?
  - dec0dedab0de 11y ago
    They tried to extinguish the web, and failed. That is enough to not trust them for a long while still.
  - pgeorgi 11y ago
    The kerberos described in http://web.archive.org/web/20140222133423/http://www.networkworld.com/news/2000/0511kerberos.html http://web.archive.org/web/20140222133423/http://www.network...?
    - sudioStudio64 11y ago
      That was from 2000. Since then they have released all of their protocols as open spec documents. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/openspecifications/default https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/openspecifications/default Their kerberos implementation works with heimdal and mit. They used an optinal field to include group membership data so that authorization decisions could be made from the contents of the ticket. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/gg604662.aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/gg604662.aspx I'm just saying. Times have changed. Will they ever be as open as an open source project run by volunteers? No. Have they dramatically improved their position in response to the very real criticisms of their past behavior. Yes.
      - atonse 11y ago
        > Will they ever be as open as an open source project run by volunteers? No. The ASP.NET and other .NET teams beg to differ. Their code (not some mirror) is hosted on Github and Apache licensed. You can fork it just like any other open source project. So yes, parts of Microsoft's tech is actually free and open, for all practical definitions of free and open (the GNU people's pedantic arguments about Apache not withstanding)
dec0dedab0de 11y ago
It's too early to cry wolf yet Wrong. It's too late to automatically assume they've changed their game. They have been making some impressive moves lately, but that doesn't mean they're suddenly trustworthy. there's not even an obvious way to get from here to "extend" just look at all the nonstandard SSH authentication methods that exist across networking devices.

weavie 11y ago

It's open source. More like, embrace, extend... their pull requests get declined.

ed_blackburn 11y ago
Absolutely. If they fork it, it defeats the purpose - getting Windows Server to play nice in heterogeneous environments - if their contributions aren't compatible with the ethos, direction or quality of what is required, they will not be accepted.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

zaphar 11y ago

When you want to know where a company is heading look at the past history of their current leadership. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish was the modus operandi of Gates and Ballmer. Satya Nadella is now at the helm and he does not have the same history nor is he moving in the same directions. Satya is a different person and I'm holding judgement till I see the fruits of his labor and how far his leadership trickles down.