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Video Professor Tries To Bully Washington Post, Fails

68 points by vrobancho 17y ago

dhimes 17y ago
Kudos to The WP.
- greyman 17y ago
  I think the main kudos should go to Arrington, since it is basically his personal fight with scammers - WP only syndicates Techcrunch articles. I'd say Michael has an advantage that he is a lawyer, so he knows the boundary of what he can and can't write, so it is hard to intimidate him with letters from companies lawyers.
mdasen 17y ago
Well, if they're going to claim they have a good rating from the Better Business Bureau, hopefully people will start sending complaints there: https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/getstarted.aspx?siteID=33 https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/getstarted.aspx?siteID=33
- dhimes 17y ago
  A little OT, but does anybody here belong to the BBB? Is it worth it, do you think?
  - apowell 17y ago
    I've joined in order to be able to display the seal on my own ecommerce site. As a single-person company, it isn't terribly expensive (it is priced per employee). I don't have any hard evidence (such as an A/B test) to support my decision, but I'm selling monthly subscriptions to businesses and felt the impression of credibility was worthwhile.
  - joanou 17y ago
    I belong to the BBB so that I can have their logo on my site. I thought it was expensive since that is all I want of them. It frustrates me that scammers such as Video Professor use the service.
- dchest 17y ago
  Interesting, BBB profile has this explanation: On television, the company offers a promotion for a free computer learning cd. Consumers taking advantage of the free cd are offered upsells. If accepted, they require the consumer to return products to avoid being billed. If consumers do not return the products, they will continue to receive additional products and be billed for those products. http://www.bbb.org/denver/business-reviews/computers-training/video-professor-in-denver-co-15503 http://www.bbb.org/denver/business-reviews/computers-trainin...
  - fnid 17y ago
    Look at all the compliants: 117 regarding Advertising Issues 178 regarding Billing or Collection Issues 4 regarding Contract Issues 14 regarding Customer Service Issues 35 regarding Delivery Issues 3 regarding Guarantee or Warranty Issues 5 regarding Product Issues 556 regarding Refund or Exchange Issues 220 regarding Sales Practice Issues 2 regarding Service Issues They probably just refund the money or something, but if this many people complain, how many don't?
    - chrischen 17y ago
      Well a lot of the issues are in the refund. But it also says about 1000 were resolved.
- tptacek 17y ago
  A great example of what's wrong with the BBB, which "rates" businesses that pay them fees.
  - bmalicoat 17y ago
    Exactly, there is no incentive to hand down bad ratings to the people giving you all your money. Way OT but lack of proper incentive is a huge problem everywhere and played a major part in the banking collapse.
robotrout 17y ago
When I watch those commercials, I always assumed the scam was that they were sending you a "free CD", but charging a good price for it with their "shipping and handling charge". I wasn't nearly cynical enough it seems.
- qeorge 17y ago
  Agree. I've seen those ads more times than I can count, and never thought they'd be sending 30 CDs, and billing me if I didn't return 29 of them. The ads clearly lead you to think they'll send 1 CD, possibly charging S&H, and it will prove its merits thereby leading you to purchase further products. I believe he even says as much.
chrischen 17y ago
Honestly, it doesn't seem that scammy. I always thought it was quite obvious it's a trial offer. I guess it depends on whether or not those CDs are good to justify the price.
- aarongough 17y ago
  Not that scammy? Nowhere on the site are any of the extra charges declared. If someone bills your credit card without expressly telling you that they're going to then it's a scam. Are you seriously trying to tell us that tricking unwary customers is not scammy?
  - systemtrigger 17y ago
    > Nowhere on the site are any of the extra charges declared. Be careful of what you are claiming. The http://videoprofessor.com http://videoprofessor.com homepage says "After your 10-day free trial, if you decide to keep the complete set, we'll conveniently bill your credit card just $289.95."
    - aarongough 17y ago
      Thanks for catching that. I looked but couldn't find that notice (I'll admit I didn't look super hard...) I think that if you're going to charge a customer X number of dollars, you really need to make sure they understand that. It's obviously a bad business practice, but I think that regulators should take the extra step and make hiding charges in fine print illegal...
  - chrischen 17y ago
    It does notice users on the site. And people can return the products afterwards. On their BBB profile it says most of their issues are resolved. Why is everyone taking Arrington's word for it. It doesn't even seem like he did any research besides a quick glance at their site. For all you know video professor makes it's money by tricking people to try, only to have people realize it was worth the 300 dollars. I don't deny any tricking on their website, but they do have a return and refund policy that seems satisfiable. It just doesn't add up. How can they sustain their business if people can refund.
joe_bleau 17y ago
I like to think that the vermin preying on the gullible elderly today will one day themselves be old, gullible, and the victims of the next generation of scammers. Looking at it from the other side, could it be that some of the current victims were themselves scammers in their youth, and are only receiving a little bit of karmic payback?
- rbanffy 17y ago
  I would much rather live in a world without scammers, even if it means the current ones won't get properly punished.
  - Semiapies 17y ago
    Sounds better than hoping that victims did something to deserve it.
ShabbyDoo 17y ago
A few years ago, this company's TV ads said something to the effect of, "You too can learn to RUN a computer." I always thought the word "run" was odd -- kind of like I was going to learn to run a cement mixer or something. Now, I wonder if it was an attempt at selection bias; perhaps there's a correlation between those who respond affirmatively to the notion of "running" a computer are those least likely to read the fine print or return the CDs on time.

68 points by vrobancho 17y ago

dhimes 17y ago

Kudos to The WP.

greyman 17y ago
I think the main kudos should go to Arrington, since it is basically his personal fight with scammers - WP only syndicates Techcrunch articles. I'd say Michael has an advantage that he is a lawyer, so he knows the boundary of what he can and can't write, so it is hard to intimidate him with letters from companies lawyers.

mdasen 17y ago

Well, if they're going to claim they have a good rating from the Better Business Bureau, hopefully people will start sending complaints there: https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/getstarted.aspx?siteID=33 https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/getstarted.aspx?siteID=33

dhimes 17y ago
A little OT, but does anybody here belong to the BBB? Is it worth it, do you think?
- apowell 17y ago
  I've joined in order to be able to display the seal on my own ecommerce site. As a single-person company, it isn't terribly expensive (it is priced per employee). I don't have any hard evidence (such as an A/B test) to support my decision, but I'm selling monthly subscriptions to businesses and felt the impression of credibility was worthwhile.
- joanou 17y ago
  I belong to the BBB so that I can have their logo on my site. I thought it was expensive since that is all I want of them. It frustrates me that scammers such as Video Professor use the service.
dchest 17y ago
Interesting, BBB profile has this explanation: On television, the company offers a promotion for a free computer learning cd. Consumers taking advantage of the free cd are offered upsells. If accepted, they require the consumer to return products to avoid being billed. If consumers do not return the products, they will continue to receive additional products and be billed for those products. http://www.bbb.org/denver/business-reviews/computers-training/video-professor-in-denver-co-15503 http://www.bbb.org/denver/business-reviews/computers-trainin...
- fnid 17y ago
  Look at all the compliants: 117 regarding Advertising Issues 178 regarding Billing or Collection Issues 4 regarding Contract Issues 14 regarding Customer Service Issues 35 regarding Delivery Issues 3 regarding Guarantee or Warranty Issues 5 regarding Product Issues 556 regarding Refund or Exchange Issues 220 regarding Sales Practice Issues 2 regarding Service Issues They probably just refund the money or something, but if this many people complain, how many don't?
  - chrischen 17y ago
    Well a lot of the issues are in the refund. But it also says about 1000 were resolved.
tptacek 17y ago
A great example of what's wrong with the BBB, which "rates" businesses that pay them fees.
- bmalicoat 17y ago
  Exactly, there is no incentive to hand down bad ratings to the people giving you all your money. Way OT but lack of proper incentive is a huge problem everywhere and played a major part in the banking collapse.

robotrout 17y ago

When I watch those commercials, I always assumed the scam was that they were sending you a "free CD", but charging a good price for it with their "shipping and handling charge". I wasn't nearly cynical enough it seems.

qeorge 17y ago
Agree. I've seen those ads more times than I can count, and never thought they'd be sending 30 CDs, and billing me if I didn't return 29 of them. The ads clearly lead you to think they'll send 1 CD, possibly charging S&H, and it will prove its merits thereby leading you to purchase further products. I believe he even says as much.

chrischen 17y ago

Honestly, it doesn't seem that scammy. I always thought it was quite obvious it's a trial offer. I guess it depends on whether or not those CDs are good to justify the price.

aarongough 17y ago
Not that scammy? Nowhere on the site are any of the extra charges declared. If someone bills your credit card without expressly telling you that they're going to then it's a scam. Are you seriously trying to tell us that tricking unwary customers is not scammy?
- systemtrigger 17y ago
  > Nowhere on the site are any of the extra charges declared. Be careful of what you are claiming. The http://videoprofessor.com http://videoprofessor.com homepage says "After your 10-day free trial, if you decide to keep the complete set, we'll conveniently bill your credit card just $289.95."
  - aarongough 17y ago
    Thanks for catching that. I looked but couldn't find that notice (I'll admit I didn't look super hard...) I think that if you're going to charge a customer X number of dollars, you really need to make sure they understand that. It's obviously a bad business practice, but I think that regulators should take the extra step and make hiding charges in fine print illegal...
- chrischen 17y ago
  It does notice users on the site. And people can return the products afterwards. On their BBB profile it says most of their issues are resolved. Why is everyone taking Arrington's word for it. It doesn't even seem like he did any research besides a quick glance at their site. For all you know video professor makes it's money by tricking people to try, only to have people realize it was worth the 300 dollars. I don't deny any tricking on their website, but they do have a return and refund policy that seems satisfiable. It just doesn't add up. How can they sustain their business if people can refund.

joe_bleau 17y ago

I like to think that the vermin preying on the gullible elderly today will one day themselves be old, gullible, and the victims of the next generation of scammers. Looking at it from the other side, could it be that some of the current victims were themselves scammers in their youth, and are only receiving a little bit of karmic payback?

rbanffy 17y ago
I would much rather live in a world without scammers, even if it means the current ones won't get properly punished.
- Semiapies 17y ago
  Sounds better than hoping that victims did something to deserve it.

ShabbyDoo 17y ago

A few years ago, this company's TV ads said something to the effect of, "You too can learn to RUN a computer." I always thought the word "run" was odd -- kind of like I was going to learn to run a cement mixer or something. Now, I wonder if it was an attempt at selection bias; perhaps there's a correlation between those who respond affirmatively to the notion of "running" a computer are those least likely to read the fine print or return the CDs on time.