8 ms·

Texas Lawmakers Pass a Bill Allowing Guns at Colleges

30 points by el_duderino 11y ago

shirro 11y ago
I need a browser plugin that replaces guns with teddy bears. Because outside of hunting, sport, policing or warfare I don't know that guns have much of a role in society. On campus they would seem to replace a thumb in the mouth or a plush toy in the hand of someone with major insecurities.
- afarrell 11y ago
  So what are your thoughts on http://web.mit.edu/mitprc/www/index.html http://web.mit.edu/mitprc/www/index.html ?
  - knorby 11y ago
    Doesn't range shooting count as sport?
  - shirro 11y ago
    Totally in favour of students learning how to shoot guns or bows or fence with swords. Why wait for college? With proper supervision these are all appropriate at high school. A campus should be inclusive and non-intimidating. If you want women, minorities, foreign students to feel comfortable and secure, then arming self-entitled white males to strut around campus with deadly weapons for no reason other than pandering to their own deep insecurities is not the way to do it.
    - hga 11y ago
      Wow, I had no idea this law forbid women and minorities from getting concealed carry permits and/or carrying on campus (for better or worse, an alien generally has to be a permanent resident to get a permit). You don't suppose some of those women want to be able to protect themselves from the real rape culture? I also wonder how these "women, minorities, foreign students" would even know that others are carrying concealed weapons. (Further, a lot of us wonder how these special snowflakes will cope when they graduate and are in the real world, after being coddled all their lives.)
      - afarrell 11y ago
        What threat model are you picturing for rape that pulling out a pistol would be an effective response? Even "jump-from-the-bushes" rape (which is a pretty small proportion of rape) tends to involve close distances. Pulling a pistol on someone within arms reach is tricky even if you are sober and at about equal strength. (I am not a martial arts or combat systems instructor of any kind.)
        hga 11y ago
        Well, somehow it nonetheless works for a whole lot of women/people in general; the statistic I've read is that the average gun fight occurs at 7 feet of distance. And of course one of the points here is that a gun is an equalizer for people with a strength difference. Consider the Zimmerman-Martin case. Martin, taller and with the advantage of hitting first, was on top of Zimmerman, pounding his head into a concrete sidewalk, and Zimmerman nonetheless was able to draw his gun and shoot Martin.
- dropit_sphere 11y ago
  For that matter, crypto too. What, do they have something to hide?
  - lfuller 11y ago
    I don't believe you can honestly compare hiding one's own communications for the sake of privacy with carrying a wartime weapon in a non-hostile public place.
    - dropit_sphere 11y ago
      >carrying a wartime weapon in a non-hostile public place. You're dragging some baggage in there. Of course a wartime anything is inappropriate in a "non-hostile" place. How about a peacetime weapon in a public place of indeterminate hostility? For that matter: doesn't the incompletely-enforced prohibition of personal arms make a place inherently hostile?
jboggan 11y ago
I think this makes sense. At least in my own experience attending a university in a high crime area, there were a number of students who legally owned firearms (off campus storage), had obtained a concealed carry permit from the state, and practiced often but were not allowed to protect themselves on campus. Several times my students were robbed or even kidnapped on campus. The criminals loved having so many soft targets with new electronics. A student group petitioned the school president and the state legislature to allow licensed guns on campus. They were told to instead walk in groups at night. As a result several enterprising robbers started carrying flex-ties so they could rob large groups and leave them face down and bereft of their belongings and dignity.
- jacalata 11y ago
  And you never thought about just transferring out of Mogadishu?
  - droithomme 11y ago
    He wasn't in Mogadishu. Why would you assume that? http://www.ajc.com/news/news/student-robbed-at-gunpoint-inside-georgia-tech-bui/njg4R/ http://www.ajc.com/news/news/student-robbed-at-gunpoint-insi... http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/georgia-tech-student-mugged-she-walked-home/nhhLk/ http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/georgia-tech-student-mu... http://patch.com/georgia/midtown/police-seek-atlantic-station-robbery-crew-0 http://patch.com/georgia/midtown/police-seek-atlantic-statio... http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/ga-tech-students-robbed-gunpoint-campus/nZkN3/ http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/ga-tech-students-robbed... http://www.ajc.com/news/news/sixth-atlanta-college-student-robbed-at-gunpoint/nhGbF/ http://www.ajc.com/news/news/sixth-atlanta-college-student-r...
  - jboggan 11y ago
    Well I left Atlanta 3 years ago and don't miss it, mainly for those kinds of reasons. I had the choice and ability to move elsewhere but a lot of people don't. Is it really reasonable to restart your graduate studies in another state because you are worried about crime? Or is it more reasonable to be allowed the same rights and responsibilities concerning self defense that exist across the street from your university? A lot of students don't realize how dangerous their colleges are until they have been there awhile. Administrations do a good job quieting down stories and keeping them out of the paper.
monochromatic 11y ago
Why would we trust people with a concealed handgun license to carry all over town, but force them to go unarmed on campus? And before anyone says "alcohol," carrying drunk is already a separate crime.
Glyptodon 11y ago
I don't know. Forget being safe, I'm reminded of how my college told me I couldn't keep a fencing foil in my dorm room because it was a "weapon" and I'm somewhat sympathetic. Especially considering students with baseball bats and such were never told anything similar. I don't think college should come with a "only approved hobbies allowed" sign.
muriithi 11y ago
Kenya is far away from Texas but I wish some of the 147 students who were killed in their hostels on 2nd of April could shoot back. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garissa_University_College_attack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garissa_University_College_atta...
ericclemmons 11y ago
I'm pleasantly surprised by the feedback on this so far. As a CHL holder in Texas, I think this law makes sense. Having taken the training, which I think should be a prerequisite for gun ownership IMO, my threshold for when I would brandish my weapon is insanely high now. Mainly, the course emphasized the huge impact after the situation ends. You may be the one who's dead, as heroic acts rarely end picture-perfect. You'll have killed another person, with a family who's life is wrecked as a result. You'll likely lose tons of money fighting the court cases that'll surely emerge. Before, I was brought up with the southern notion that stealing a TV warranted shooting on sight. Having actually talked through scenarios, taken classes, and prepared for the unforeseen possibilities, I'd rather avoid using a weapon unless a death is imminent.
- gonzo 11y ago
  > which I think should be a prerequisite for gun ownership IMO only the Second Amendment stops you, and people like you. > my threshold for when I would brandish my weapon is insanely high now. only... Texas is about to pass Open Carry.
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    Brandishing and open carry are entirely different things. Take the class!
    - gonzo 11y ago
      I took the class, when you were still in high school. thanks.
      - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        And? Still confusing Open Carry with Brandishing? Explain please.
        gonzo 11y ago
louithethrid 11y ago
Now .. the cold war showed that when everybody has a nuke then nobody will ever live to tell the tale from that one guy, who build a gun wilding drone. The problem is that crime is so high, and crime is so high, because society basically provide those guys with high-income-guaranteed-protected-by-the-state-zones (drug trade). And the drug trade is part of your way of life. You cant preach protestant ethics and expect those who fall short to stay in that harsh reality that is created. Even if everybody gets a free wrench, if the aqueduct is pumping water into your houses attic, you never gonna have a dry day. But you gonna have people bleeding from there heads where the wrenches hit. Armed campus police would make sense though.
ExpiredLink 11y ago
Once upon a time at an US college: http://filmmakeriq.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Once-Upon-a-Time-in-the-West.jpg http://filmmakeriq.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Once-Upon-...
staticelf 11y ago
As a Swede this seems completely medeival to me and I have troubles understanding how anyone can support such a law. But since it is the US we're talking about, I'm not surprised. The US just have 1 additional reason why I wouldn't even consider moving there.
- M8 11y ago
  Is Sweden one of those countries where harming a robber inside your own house can put you in jail?
  - staticelf 11y ago
    Yes :P At least if you are doing unnecessary damage to the person. For example, if you are just defending yourself, it is okay. If the robber was not armed and you shoot him/her down, you will be prosecuted for that.
- jboggan 11y ago
  The US is extremely large and extremely varied. I used to deal with these sorts of existential threats every day, but by moving to a city with more than double the cost of living I was able to escape most of it. Some folks are luckier and are born in more peaceful societies, you should be thankful!
jib 11y ago
As a non-american, this is really weird to me. I grew up around plenty of guns at my friends - they were moose hunting rifles mostly. And they were under lock and key unless actively used for hunting, with guns locked in one location, ammunition locked in another (at least one of them in safe). The police where I live now (Ireland) don't carry guns except for a few special units. The fact that wearing guns is something that is every day business and that you can even discuss about is so alien to me that it is fascinating to see. I am glad I dont live in a society with those values though. More guns means more people killed by guns. That said, I don't know the solution once you already have a proliferation of guns in your society. Personally I don't believe that maximizing the saturation of guns is a long-term solution but I recognize that it is a difficult situation.
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  That's probably not true. More firearms can easily mean fewer deaths. An armed society is a polite society. Historically the most heavily-armed old west towns were the ones with the lowest death rates from violence.
  - GFischer 11y ago
    My main problem with this is.. why "armed" have to equal "lethal firearms"? Why no more R&D into nonlethal options (something like an improved taser?). I don't want to own a gun, because a gun is not effective unless you're willing to use it (in a last resort), and i don't want to do that... I want to own a Taser though (for self-defense).
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      In the American Constitutional case, 'arms' meant firearms. In some newly constituted society you could make a different rule I suppose. And of course nothing keeps you from carrying a taser now.
      - giaour 11y ago
        There are generally much stricter regulations on non-lethal weapons than there are on guns, so the OP might have to be careful in his choice of taser (depending on where he lives). I grew up in Texas and was always surprised by how cautious I needed to be with my boy scout issued knife -- carrying it in Houston would have been a felony, but carrying a glock was permitted everywhere. I remember my mom having to carry a can of bear repellant instead of mace for the same reason.
M8 11y ago
They should allow it in schools as well. Would stop bullying quite quick.
- arethuza 11y ago
  Out of interest, do kids get taught weapons handling and how to shoot at high school in the US? [NB I'm asking because some kids get taught these things in the UK]
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    High schools in most states don't have shooting programs any more. Also no wood shop, or metal shop, or automotive classes. Budget cuts. Youth groups do the training now. My son is a shooting instructor, was Director of shooting sports at our local camp for years.
    - arethuza 11y ago
      The Combined Cadet Force is pretty popular at private schools in the UK - the school my son is at even has a few ex-squaddies on the staff. It's pretty heavily subsidized by the Army - they get loads of gear to take home (not weapons, obviously) have weekly training sessions and weekend and week long camps a few times a year.
      - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        Very cool! Where I live most youth programs try to distance themselves from the military, which is a pity and borderline shameful. Anyway, our Scout camp has a 24-station shooting range and trap station. Also archery for the younger folk. I'll look into the CCF, sounds exciting!
  - hga 11y ago
    There's a Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps (JROTC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_Reserve_Officers%27_Training_Corps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_Reserve_Officers%27_Tra...) program that's reasonably popular in many parts of the US, and weapons training is a popular part of it. When I did it in the late '70s it was small bore/.22LR in the winter when getting out wasn't so practical, and there was an opportunity to go to a "summer camp" where you would practice with real service rifles, practice grenades (they wouldn't let the young ones try out real ones), putting on a gas mask in a tear gas chamber, basically a junior boot camp sort of thing. My parents were no fun at all and wouldn't let me attend the latter :-( which due to eyesight was the closest I ever could get to the real thing ). And of course a rifle team, in which I had a lot of fun, small bore rifles, 50 feet, the "10" was a dot the size of the hole a needle makes in a piece of paper. Quite challenging and two years of early morning practice really improved my marksmanship, even got a nifty and 100% authentic Expert marksmanship badge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marksmanship_Badges_(United_States)#United_States_Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marksmanship_Badges_(United_St...). We on the team helped with the safety monitoring and instruction in the winter rifle marksmanship and that was very worthwhile as well, teaching a novice well enough to get a Marksman badge was a great experience and generally useful for life. In fact, teaching others was one of the things JROTC explicitly taught, as they pointed out the Army has to constantly teach a lot of people all sorts of things. Definitely one of the most useful things I learned in high school.

30 points by el_duderino 11y ago

I need a browser plugin that replaces guns with teddy bears. Because outside of hunting, sport, policing or warfare I don't know that guns have much of a role in society. On campus they would seem to replace a thumb in the mouth or a plush toy in the hand of someone with major insecurities.

afarrell 11y ago
So what are your thoughts on http://web.mit.edu/mitprc/www/index.html http://web.mit.edu/mitprc/www/index.html ?
- knorby 11y ago
  Doesn't range shooting count as sport?
- shirro 11y ago
  Totally in favour of students learning how to shoot guns or bows or fence with swords. Why wait for college? With proper supervision these are all appropriate at high school. A campus should be inclusive and non-intimidating. If you want women, minorities, foreign students to feel comfortable and secure, then arming self-entitled white males to strut around campus with deadly weapons for no reason other than pandering to their own deep insecurities is not the way to do it.
  - hga 11y ago
    Wow, I had no idea this law forbid women and minorities from getting concealed carry permits and/or carrying on campus (for better or worse, an alien generally has to be a permanent resident to get a permit). You don't suppose some of those women want to be able to protect themselves from the real rape culture? I also wonder how these "women, minorities, foreign students" would even know that others are carrying concealed weapons. (Further, a lot of us wonder how these special snowflakes will cope when they graduate and are in the real world, after being coddled all their lives.)
    - afarrell 11y ago
      What threat model are you picturing for rape that pulling out a pistol would be an effective response? Even "jump-from-the-bushes" rape (which is a pretty small proportion of rape) tends to involve close distances. Pulling a pistol on someone within arms reach is tricky even if you are sober and at about equal strength. (I am not a martial arts or combat systems instructor of any kind.)
      - hga 11y ago
        Well, somehow it nonetheless works for a whole lot of women/people in general; the statistic I've read is that the average gun fight occurs at 7 feet of distance. And of course one of the points here is that a gun is an equalizer for people with a strength difference. Consider the Zimmerman-Martin case. Martin, taller and with the advantage of hitting first, was on top of Zimmerman, pounding his head into a concrete sidewalk, and Zimmerman nonetheless was able to draw his gun and shoot Martin.
dropit_sphere 11y ago
For that matter, crypto too. What, do they have something to hide?
- lfuller 11y ago
  I don't believe you can honestly compare hiding one's own communications for the sake of privacy with carrying a wartime weapon in a non-hostile public place.
  - dropit_sphere 11y ago
    >carrying a wartime weapon in a non-hostile public place. You're dragging some baggage in there. Of course a wartime anything is inappropriate in a "non-hostile" place. How about a peacetime weapon in a public place of indeterminate hostility? For that matter: doesn't the incompletely-enforced prohibition of personal arms make a place inherently hostile?

jboggan 11y ago

I think this makes sense. At least in my own experience attending a university in a high crime area, there were a number of students who legally owned firearms (off campus storage), had obtained a concealed carry permit from the state, and practiced often but were not allowed to protect themselves on campus. Several times my students were robbed or even kidnapped on campus. The criminals loved having so many soft targets with new electronics. A student group petitioned the school president and the state legislature to allow licensed guns on campus. They were told to instead walk in groups at night. As a result several enterprising robbers started carrying flex-ties so they could rob large groups and leave them face down and bereft of their belongings and dignity.

jacalata 11y ago
And you never thought about just transferring out of Mogadishu?
- droithomme 11y ago
  He wasn't in Mogadishu. Why would you assume that? http://www.ajc.com/news/news/student-robbed-at-gunpoint-inside-georgia-tech-bui/njg4R/ http://www.ajc.com/news/news/student-robbed-at-gunpoint-insi... http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/georgia-tech-student-mugged-she-walked-home/nhhLk/ http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/georgia-tech-student-mu... http://patch.com/georgia/midtown/police-seek-atlantic-station-robbery-crew-0 http://patch.com/georgia/midtown/police-seek-atlantic-statio... http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/ga-tech-students-robbed-gunpoint-campus/nZkN3/ http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/ga-tech-students-robbed... http://www.ajc.com/news/news/sixth-atlanta-college-student-robbed-at-gunpoint/nhGbF/ http://www.ajc.com/news/news/sixth-atlanta-college-student-r...
- jboggan 11y ago
  Well I left Atlanta 3 years ago and don't miss it, mainly for those kinds of reasons. I had the choice and ability to move elsewhere but a lot of people don't. Is it really reasonable to restart your graduate studies in another state because you are worried about crime? Or is it more reasonable to be allowed the same rights and responsibilities concerning self defense that exist across the street from your university? A lot of students don't realize how dangerous their colleges are until they have been there awhile. Administrations do a good job quieting down stories and keeping them out of the paper.

monochromatic 11y ago

Why would we trust people with a concealed handgun license to carry all over town, but force them to go unarmed on campus? And before anyone says "alcohol," carrying drunk is already a separate crime.

Glyptodon 11y ago

I don't know. Forget being safe, I'm reminded of how my college told me I couldn't keep a fencing foil in my dorm room because it was a "weapon" and I'm somewhat sympathetic. Especially considering students with baseball bats and such were never told anything similar. I don't think college should come with a "only approved hobbies allowed" sign.

muriithi 11y ago

Kenya is far away from Texas but I wish some of the 147 students who were killed in their hostels on 2nd of April could shoot back. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garissa_University_College_attack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garissa_University_College_atta...

ericclemmons 11y ago

I'm pleasantly surprised by the feedback on this so far. As a CHL holder in Texas, I think this law makes sense. Having taken the training, which I think should be a prerequisite for gun ownership IMO, my threshold for when I would brandish my weapon is insanely high now. Mainly, the course emphasized the huge impact after the situation ends. You may be the one who's dead, as heroic acts rarely end picture-perfect. You'll have killed another person, with a family who's life is wrecked as a result. You'll likely lose tons of money fighting the court cases that'll surely emerge. Before, I was brought up with the southern notion that stealing a TV warranted shooting on sight. Having actually talked through scenarios, taken classes, and prepared for the unforeseen possibilities, I'd rather avoid using a weapon unless a death is imminent.

gonzo 11y ago
> which I think should be a prerequisite for gun ownership IMO only the Second Amendment stops you, and people like you. > my threshold for when I would brandish my weapon is insanely high now. only... Texas is about to pass Open Carry.
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  Brandishing and open carry are entirely different things. Take the class!
  - gonzo 11y ago
    I took the class, when you were still in high school. thanks.
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      And? Still confusing Open Carry with Brandishing? Explain please.
      - gonzo 11y ago

louithethrid 11y ago

Now .. the cold war showed that when everybody has a nuke then nobody will ever live to tell the tale from that one guy, who build a gun wilding drone. The problem is that crime is so high, and crime is so high, because society basically provide those guys with high-income-guaranteed-protected-by-the-state-zones (drug trade). And the drug trade is part of your way of life. You cant preach protestant ethics and expect those who fall short to stay in that harsh reality that is created. Even if everybody gets a free wrench, if the aqueduct is pumping water into your houses attic, you never gonna have a dry day. But you gonna have people bleeding from there heads where the wrenches hit. Armed campus police would make sense though.

ExpiredLink 11y ago

Once upon a time at an US college: http://filmmakeriq.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Once-Upon-a-Time-in-the-West.jpg http://filmmakeriq.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Once-Upon-...

staticelf 11y ago

As a Swede this seems completely medeival to me and I have troubles understanding how anyone can support such a law. But since it is the US we're talking about, I'm not surprised. The US just have 1 additional reason why I wouldn't even consider moving there.

M8 11y ago
Is Sweden one of those countries where harming a robber inside your own house can put you in jail?
- staticelf 11y ago
  Yes :P At least if you are doing unnecessary damage to the person. For example, if you are just defending yourself, it is okay. If the robber was not armed and you shoot him/her down, you will be prosecuted for that.
jboggan 11y ago
The US is extremely large and extremely varied. I used to deal with these sorts of existential threats every day, but by moving to a city with more than double the cost of living I was able to escape most of it. Some folks are luckier and are born in more peaceful societies, you should be thankful!

jib 11y ago

As a non-american, this is really weird to me. I grew up around plenty of guns at my friends - they were moose hunting rifles mostly. And they were under lock and key unless actively used for hunting, with guns locked in one location, ammunition locked in another (at least one of them in safe). The police where I live now (Ireland) don't carry guns except for a few special units. The fact that wearing guns is something that is every day business and that you can even discuss about is so alien to me that it is fascinating to see. I am glad I dont live in a society with those values though. More guns means more people killed by guns. That said, I don't know the solution once you already have a proliferation of guns in your society. Personally I don't believe that maximizing the saturation of guns is a long-term solution but I recognize that it is a difficult situation.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago
That's probably not true. More firearms can easily mean fewer deaths. An armed society is a polite society. Historically the most heavily-armed old west towns were the ones with the lowest death rates from violence.
- GFischer 11y ago
  My main problem with this is.. why "armed" have to equal "lethal firearms"? Why no more R&D into nonlethal options (something like an improved taser?). I don't want to own a gun, because a gun is not effective unless you're willing to use it (in a last resort), and i don't want to do that... I want to own a Taser though (for self-defense).
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    In the American Constitutional case, 'arms' meant firearms. In some newly constituted society you could make a different rule I suppose. And of course nothing keeps you from carrying a taser now.
    - giaour 11y ago
      There are generally much stricter regulations on non-lethal weapons than there are on guns, so the OP might have to be careful in his choice of taser (depending on where he lives). I grew up in Texas and was always surprised by how cautious I needed to be with my boy scout issued knife -- carrying it in Houston would have been a felony, but carrying a glock was permitted everywhere. I remember my mom having to carry a can of bear repellant instead of mace for the same reason.

M8 11y ago

They should allow it in schools as well. Would stop bullying quite quick.

arethuza 11y ago
Out of interest, do kids get taught weapons handling and how to shoot at high school in the US? [NB I'm asking because some kids get taught these things in the UK]
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  High schools in most states don't have shooting programs any more. Also no wood shop, or metal shop, or automotive classes. Budget cuts. Youth groups do the training now. My son is a shooting instructor, was Director of shooting sports at our local camp for years.
  - arethuza 11y ago
    The Combined Cadet Force is pretty popular at private schools in the UK - the school my son is at even has a few ex-squaddies on the staff. It's pretty heavily subsidized by the Army - they get loads of gear to take home (not weapons, obviously) have weekly training sessions and weekend and week long camps a few times a year.
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      Very cool! Where I live most youth programs try to distance themselves from the military, which is a pity and borderline shameful. Anyway, our Scout camp has a 24-station shooting range and trap station. Also archery for the younger folk. I'll look into the CCF, sounds exciting!
- hga 11y ago
  There's a Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps (JROTC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_Reserve_Officers%27_Training_Corps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_Reserve_Officers%27_Tra...) program that's reasonably popular in many parts of the US, and weapons training is a popular part of it. When I did it in the late '70s it was small bore/.22LR in the winter when getting out wasn't so practical, and there was an opportunity to go to a "summer camp" where you would practice with real service rifles, practice grenades (they wouldn't let the young ones try out real ones), putting on a gas mask in a tear gas chamber, basically a junior boot camp sort of thing. My parents were no fun at all and wouldn't let me attend the latter :-( which due to eyesight was the closest I ever could get to the real thing ). And of course a rifle team, in which I had a lot of fun, small bore rifles, 50 feet, the "10" was a dot the size of the hole a needle makes in a piece of paper. Quite challenging and two years of early morning practice really improved my marksmanship, even got a nifty and 100% authentic Expert marksmanship badge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marksmanship_Badges_(United_States)#United_States_Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marksmanship_Badges_(United_St...). We on the team helped with the safety monitoring and instruction in the winter rifle marksmanship and that was very worthwhile as well, teaching a novice well enough to get a Marksman badge was a great experience and generally useful for life. In fact, teaching others was one of the things JROTC explicitly taught, as they pointed out the Army has to constantly teach a lot of people all sorts of things. Definitely one of the most useful things I learned in high school.