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Software is eating everything, including hardware. If Apple is not capable of doing good software it's doomed. It appears to me that Apple is giving up on softw

by msoad 11y ago

Software is eating everything, including hardware. If Apple is not capable of doing good software it's doomed. It appears to me that Apple is giving up on software. By software I mean the code that recognize things in my photos in Google Photos or the software that sort the items in my Facebook News Feed. Apple is incapable of doing software like that. At least today. So what they're doing is bashing those who actually can do things with their data. I like to believe there is a company that cares about my privacy but we all know if Apple can make a good business from my data it will(iAd). They simply can't!

craigyk 11y ago
Sure...
- msoad 11y ago
  I know people from Apple data-related teams and talk to them a lot. Trust me, they simply don't have what it takes to build good data-heavy software.
  - nemo 11y ago
    I know people from Apple data-related teams and have no idea what you're talking about. Might depend on the team...
  - threeseed 11y ago
    I know people from those teams as well. Pretty sure Siri, iTunes Match, iTunes Store, App Store, iMessages, iCloud etc use just a little bit of data so clearly they aren't idiots. And with the acquisition of the guys from FoundationDB pretty sure they will have at least some skill in high end database engineering.
    - MCRed 11y ago
      Especially given that Google has yet to catch up with most of these, including the "beleaguered" Maps App.
    - tolmasky 11y ago
      You just listed a bunch of broken products that do nothing but make me skeptical of apple even being able to properly store my data, let alone analyze it. imessages is notorious for not even being able to deliver messages in order many times. It is easily apples worst service, and should be brain dead simple. App Store is s bare minimum store that's only real change since its inception was just now supporting videos and a higher reliance on curation (because they can't possibly figure out more automated ways). It loads horribly, and barely has any helpfulness in suggesting new apps. Search is a mess that will often not give you an exact string matchas the first result. It's a joke compared to a real online store like Amazon, and it doesn't even have physical products or difficult problems like figuring out shipping. iCloud has had repeated public embarrassments, and can't seem to guarantee basic uptime and service despite being overpriced, and IsItself the result of several relaunches due to predecessors making such a bad reputation for themselves (.mac, MobileMe). Siri was a purchase, and despite having is integration does not compete that great against Google now. Same goes with mapping of course. Apple may get good at services someday, but that day is not now.
      - gress 11y ago
        What 'repeated public embarrassments' has iCloud had? Don't tell me you're referring to the celebrity photos social engineering attack?
      - threeseed 11y ago
        1. iMessages is not dead simple. Not sure if you've ever worked on highly concurrent, real time systems but they are never as trivial as it seems to the lay outsider. And whilst I can't comment on it getting messages out of order (never happened to anyone I know) it isn't widespread based on media reports. 2. Not sure why you are comparing App Store with Amazon when Apple has an equivalent: the Apple Online Store. It does have physical products and has to deal with figuring out shipping across multiple regions. It's actually comparable to Amazon since they both use the microtransactions approach to billing. 3. iCloud is free up to 5GB and isn't hugely overpriced compared to Google Drive/Dropbox given that it isn't just a drive. Agreed that it has a checkered past but actually is pretty good given that it has more functionality than what Google or Microsoft provides. 4. Siri was initially a purchase but was completely rebuilt on a pretty impressive Mesos based architecture. It is a world apart from what it was originally and as I've mentioned below the integration of Cue and Spotsetter should make them far more competitive with Google Now. I am not saying that Apple is the best at services but I think people grossly underestimate the scale at which Apple is operating with some of their services.
rogerb 11y ago
Tim's argument is simply that free is not free: google's business model requires them to monetize your pictures, through advertising etc. Apple's business model is to charge you for it.
- msoad 11y ago
  So why they have an ad network? Why they collect your searches in iOS and OSX? They don't mind doing what Google does on top of premium prices but they can't.
  - threeseed 11y ago
    Not sure why they have an ad network probably so they can own the entire end to end stack and take advantage of the growth in mobile advertising. And they collect your searches on iOS/OSX for Spotlight which is used to implement the web site suggestions features. Easy to switch off.
  - stephenr 11y ago
    iAd gives developers an easy way to run an ad-supported game/etc in the App store without the compromise in personal privacy (for the player/user) that comes from an ad network like Google's, that is heavily focused on highly targeted ads.
threeseed 11y ago
What are you talking about ? Apple is far more invested in software than ever before and have acquired a lot of software companies over the last couple of years for which we not seen the output of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Apple http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisition... And Apple does have software that does the recommendations for iTunes Store, Apple Store and App Store but I am guessing the billions of money to be made by optimising those wouldn't be worth investing the time in.
- MCRed 11y ago
  Also, Apple has had face recognition in Aperture, and probably iPhoto, for many years. Probably around the time that Facebook got it. Of course people who dislike Apple are unlikely to be using Apple software and wouldn't know this. Edit after the vote brigade: These are two straight up statements of fact. When you down vote them, you tell me that you're being ideological and you don't care what the facts are. Alas, Hacker News has always been this way.
  - duskwuff 11y ago
    Likely explanation for the downvotes: By stating "Apple has had face recognition in Aperture, and probably iPhoto" here, you're heavily implying some things which aren't true at all. In particular, you're implying that as well as including local face recognition features, Apple is somehow transmitting face recognition data to its servers and/or elsewhere. This is simply not true; these features are entirely local.
    - spdustin 11y ago
      I think he was pointing out that they've had privacy-focused face detection in their products for some time now.
supercanuck 11y ago
They don't have to care, but as long as our interests are aligned, isn't this a healthy tension between them and Google, regardless of "intent"?
randomsearch 11y ago
> Software is eating everything, including hardware. If Apple is not capable of doing good software it's doomed. What? Apple makes nearly all its money from hardware, and it is selling more and more. Software is a key part of their product, sure, and they seem to be doing ok there, but software usually runs on a hardware platform, which someone has to make.
72deluxe 11y ago
I always organised my data myself in directories etc. and find any software that attempts to organise it for me to be incredibly annoying. Admittedly, it seems most people's filing system is basically lob all their bits of paper in one room and shut the door hence the need for these "let me organise it for you!" software features.

by msoad 11y ago

craigyk 11y ago

Sure...

msoad 11y ago
I know people from Apple data-related teams and talk to them a lot. Trust me, they simply don't have what it takes to build good data-heavy software.
- nemo 11y ago
  I know people from Apple data-related teams and have no idea what you're talking about. Might depend on the team...
- threeseed 11y ago
  I know people from those teams as well. Pretty sure Siri, iTunes Match, iTunes Store, App Store, iMessages, iCloud etc use just a little bit of data so clearly they aren't idiots. And with the acquisition of the guys from FoundationDB pretty sure they will have at least some skill in high end database engineering.
  - MCRed 11y ago
    Especially given that Google has yet to catch up with most of these, including the "beleaguered" Maps App.
  - tolmasky 11y ago
    You just listed a bunch of broken products that do nothing but make me skeptical of apple even being able to properly store my data, let alone analyze it. imessages is notorious for not even being able to deliver messages in order many times. It is easily apples worst service, and should be brain dead simple. App Store is s bare minimum store that's only real change since its inception was just now supporting videos and a higher reliance on curation (because they can't possibly figure out more automated ways). It loads horribly, and barely has any helpfulness in suggesting new apps. Search is a mess that will often not give you an exact string matchas the first result. It's a joke compared to a real online store like Amazon, and it doesn't even have physical products or difficult problems like figuring out shipping. iCloud has had repeated public embarrassments, and can't seem to guarantee basic uptime and service despite being overpriced, and IsItself the result of several relaunches due to predecessors making such a bad reputation for themselves (.mac, MobileMe). Siri was a purchase, and despite having is integration does not compete that great against Google now. Same goes with mapping of course. Apple may get good at services someday, but that day is not now.
    - gress 11y ago
      What 'repeated public embarrassments' has iCloud had? Don't tell me you're referring to the celebrity photos social engineering attack?
    - threeseed 11y ago
      1. iMessages is not dead simple. Not sure if you've ever worked on highly concurrent, real time systems but they are never as trivial as it seems to the lay outsider. And whilst I can't comment on it getting messages out of order (never happened to anyone I know) it isn't widespread based on media reports. 2. Not sure why you are comparing App Store with Amazon when Apple has an equivalent: the Apple Online Store. It does have physical products and has to deal with figuring out shipping across multiple regions. It's actually comparable to Amazon since they both use the microtransactions approach to billing. 3. iCloud is free up to 5GB and isn't hugely overpriced compared to Google Drive/Dropbox given that it isn't just a drive. Agreed that it has a checkered past but actually is pretty good given that it has more functionality than what Google or Microsoft provides. 4. Siri was initially a purchase but was completely rebuilt on a pretty impressive Mesos based architecture. It is a world apart from what it was originally and as I've mentioned below the integration of Cue and Spotsetter should make them far more competitive with Google Now. I am not saying that Apple is the best at services but I think people grossly underestimate the scale at which Apple is operating with some of their services.

rogerb 11y ago

Tim's argument is simply that free is not free: google's business model requires them to monetize your pictures, through advertising etc. Apple's business model is to charge you for it.

msoad 11y ago
So why they have an ad network? Why they collect your searches in iOS and OSX? They don't mind doing what Google does on top of premium prices but they can't.
- threeseed 11y ago
  Not sure why they have an ad network probably so they can own the entire end to end stack and take advantage of the growth in mobile advertising. And they collect your searches on iOS/OSX for Spotlight which is used to implement the web site suggestions features. Easy to switch off.
- stephenr 11y ago
  iAd gives developers an easy way to run an ad-supported game/etc in the App store without the compromise in personal privacy (for the player/user) that comes from an ad network like Google's, that is heavily focused on highly targeted ads.

threeseed 11y ago

What are you talking about ? Apple is far more invested in software than ever before and have acquired a lot of software companies over the last couple of years for which we not seen the output of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Apple http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisition... And Apple does have software that does the recommendations for iTunes Store, Apple Store and App Store but I am guessing the billions of money to be made by optimising those wouldn't be worth investing the time in.

MCRed 11y ago
Also, Apple has had face recognition in Aperture, and probably iPhoto, for many years. Probably around the time that Facebook got it. Of course people who dislike Apple are unlikely to be using Apple software and wouldn't know this. Edit after the vote brigade: These are two straight up statements of fact. When you down vote them, you tell me that you're being ideological and you don't care what the facts are. Alas, Hacker News has always been this way.
- duskwuff 11y ago
  Likely explanation for the downvotes: By stating "Apple has had face recognition in Aperture, and probably iPhoto" here, you're heavily implying some things which aren't true at all. In particular, you're implying that as well as including local face recognition features, Apple is somehow transmitting face recognition data to its servers and/or elsewhere. This is simply not true; these features are entirely local.
  - spdustin 11y ago
    I think he was pointing out that they've had privacy-focused face detection in their products for some time now.

supercanuck 11y ago

They don't have to care, but as long as our interests are aligned, isn't this a healthy tension between them and Google, regardless of "intent"?

randomsearch 11y ago

> Software is eating everything, including hardware. If Apple is not capable of doing good software it's doomed. What? Apple makes nearly all its money from hardware, and it is selling more and more. Software is a key part of their product, sure, and they seem to be doing ok there, but software usually runs on a hardware platform, which someone has to make.

72deluxe 11y ago

I always organised my data myself in directories etc. and find any software that attempts to organise it for me to be incredibly annoying. Admittedly, it seems most people's filing system is basically lob all their bits of paper in one room and shut the door hence the need for these "let me organise it for you!" software features.