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Functionally, this is a loss. This bill codifies the bulk collection of metadata for the first time. It gives power to the deeply corrupt telecoms, and is very

Functionally, this is a loss. This bill codifies the bulk collection of metadata for the first time. It gives power to the deeply corrupt telecoms, and is very similar to CISPA in its philosophy. But there's one important point: even though this reform is a complete and utter falsehood, it was caused by the programs Snowden brought to light. If Snowden hadn't come forward as a whistleblower, none of this would have happened. So while this bill is a failure, it is a massive vindication for Snowden. This bill demonstrates the massive need for whistleblower reform. This fight isn't over. But we can still win it.

mpyne 11y ago
Snowden managed to codify the bulk collection of metadata, help enshrine a bunch of other legal authorities, and burned international cooperation against actual bad guys to the ground in the process. But somehow this all vindicates him? I thought the ends were supposed to justify the means?
- sroerick 11y ago
  There hasn't been any kind of surveillance reform since the Church Committee. It's true. Congress is putting on a kabuki theater show for the benefit of those who don't understand that they're lying. But the fact that they had to is a triumph, however small. Snowden revealed an illegal program. And he forced the government to pretend that they fixed it. He should be pardoned and welcomed back. At the very least, we should take steps to ensure whistleblowers are able to step forward in the future.
  - mpyne 11y ago
    Fine. We'll pardon him for the illegal program. And then convict him for the thousands of perfectly-legal programs, after we welcome him back. In the meantime, we should also take steps to ensure that whistleblowers understand the difference between whistleblowing and holding the voting and non-voting public hostage just to advance their own political agenda.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > There hasn't been any kind of surveillance reform since the Church Committee. There certainly has. One might argue over whether the direction of that reform was desirable, but that's a different question.
    - dllthomas 11y ago
      Yeah, I seriously want to taboo the word "reform." Half the legislature wants to actively import poor foreigners to vote for them, the other half wants to seal us in a hermetic bubble. Everyone agrees we want reform, why can't the lazy legislators give it to us?

mpyne 11y ago

Snowden managed to codify the bulk collection of metadata, help enshrine a bunch of other legal authorities, and burned international cooperation against actual bad guys to the ground in the process. But somehow this all vindicates him? I thought the ends were supposed to justify the means?

sroerick 11y ago
There hasn't been any kind of surveillance reform since the Church Committee. It's true. Congress is putting on a kabuki theater show for the benefit of those who don't understand that they're lying. But the fact that they had to is a triumph, however small. Snowden revealed an illegal program. And he forced the government to pretend that they fixed it. He should be pardoned and welcomed back. At the very least, we should take steps to ensure whistleblowers are able to step forward in the future.
- mpyne 11y ago
  Fine. We'll pardon him for the illegal program. And then convict him for the thousands of perfectly-legal programs, after we welcome him back. In the meantime, we should also take steps to ensure that whistleblowers understand the difference between whistleblowing and holding the voting and non-voting public hostage just to advance their own political agenda.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > There hasn't been any kind of surveillance reform since the Church Committee. There certainly has. One might argue over whether the direction of that reform was desirable, but that's a different question.
  - dllthomas 11y ago
    Yeah, I seriously want to taboo the word "reform." Half the legislature wants to actively import poor foreigners to vote for them, the other half wants to seal us in a hermetic bubble. Everyone agrees we want reform, why can't the lazy legislators give it to us?