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CalDAV and CardDAV are supported on Windows Phone 8 since GDR2 as the method to sync Gmail accounts. OneDrive supports ODF via Office Online. OpenGL runs fine o

CalDAV and CardDAV are supported on Windows Phone 8 since GDR2 as the method to sync Gmail accounts. OneDrive supports ODF via Office Online. OpenGL runs fine on Windows and is less relevant now than ever thanks to Metal and DirectX 12, etc. Oh and the new Outlook app for iOS and Android also has broad support for competitors and open standards. Sure, it's through the cloud, but it works. If you want to punish companies for sand boxing, sure, but hey, how are those iOS viruses and spyware treating you? Even Google's making a kid-safe part of their app store. There will always be ways to develop or hack these devices, but safer, saner defaults are appreciated by the majority of non-technical users.

modeless 11y ago
> OpenGL runs fine on Windows and is less relevant now than ever thanks to Metal and DirectX 12, etc. I have to express strong disagreement with this entire sentence. OpenGL on Windows desktop continues to suffer greatly from Microsoft's lack of support. OpenGL is more relevant now than ever before due to the dominance of OpenGL ES on mobile and web. Microsoft is starting to support it themselves with WebGL in IE11 and the announced iOS/Android app support for Windows 10. They even joined Khronos Group, but they're still clinging to proprietary DirectX for the Windows desktop, to nobody's benefit but their own. And finally, Vulkan is more interesting than either Metal or DX12 due to being cross-platform, and if Microsoft continues to ignore it in favor of DX12 and we have a repeat of the OpenGL vs DirectX situation it will be a huge shame.
- overgard 11y ago
  > OpenGL on Windows desktop continues to suffer greatly from Microsoft's lack of support In what way? I write graphics code for a living and from what I've seen opengl is basically fine on windows. They could do more, sure, but I never felt like they were getting in the way. I have mixed feelings on the directx thing. In principle I'm not a fan of directx, but in terms of API quality it's vastly better than opengl. Admittedly that's not saying much: opengl's design kind of sucks. State management when almost every state you set is global is a nightmare.
  - SXX 11y ago
    > They could do more, sure, but I never felt like they were getting in the way. If you would try to ship OpenGL game you'll find out that Windows 8+ shipped with crippled AMD Legacy driver (HD2XXX-4XXX) that don't have OpenGL support in it and can't be really replaced using AMD Catalyst installer until user manually install new driver via Device Manager using extremely tricky way. There was also crippled Intel drivers without GL support, but as far as I aware new drivers are shipped with GL already.
    - ygra 11y ago
      You'd have to take that up with the hardware manufacturers, I guess. It's not like Microsoft writes said drivers and if AMD chooses to submit a DirectX-only driver for inclusion in the OS then where's MS's fault?
      - girvo 11y ago
        Actually, drivers when you're talking about companies like these are developed with Microsoft involved nearly every step of the way. If they cared about OpenGL on Windows, it would've been avoided quite likely.
      - SXX 11y ago
        I don't believe that it's AMD and Intel decision to provide crippled drivers to them. After all they never really updated these drivers after hardware become "legacy" and you won't find any package without OpenGL except what Windows 8+ installing via Windows Update. Anyway I had no intention to blame Microsoft there as likely they removed GL support from those drivers not to "harm GL", but just because they won't able to test it as it's not exist for them. Other issue is that Windows 8+ had default behavior to replace manually installed drivers with GL by newer "Microsoft version" without GL, like that: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows8_1-hardware/windows-8-default-drivers-incompatible-with-opengl/afff1ae1-d9f3-46cf-b5a3-00bfeeaae88a http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows8_1-... In the end it's only Intel and AMD fault that they don't care enough to put pressure on Microsoft or at least release proper installers. BTW Intel's "The driver being installed is not validated for this computer" bullshit only prove how little they care about GL on Windows. So comment above stated "opengl is basically fine on windows". No, it's not. Any person that tried to ship or support OpenGL-powered software know that.
8_hours_ago 11y ago
> CalDAV and CardDAV are supported on Windows Phone 8 since GDR2 as the method to sync Gmail accounts. Yes, but it only works with Gmail (and iCloud) accounts, not arbitrary CalDAV/CardDav servers. Some people have had success with adding a fake iCloud account then modifying the server address, but it's not officially supported and really shouldn't be relied on to work properly. I really hope that Windows 10 Mobile includes official support for CalDAV and CardDAV.
bad_user 11y ago
CalDAV and CardDAV are not supported on Windows Phone 8, as I'm not talking about Gmail accounts. Office Online supports ODF because they were forced to, but they continue to lobby against it. The new Outlook app for Android is a privacy invading and buggy piece of shit. And the "grandma" argument falls flat on its face when you've got an app store filled with scams, mallware and trademark violations. It's also a funny argument given that platforms other than Windows haven't suffered from viruses as much. One could say that if Windows wouldn't exist, we wouldn't have this argument in the first place.

modeless 11y ago

> OpenGL runs fine on Windows and is less relevant now than ever thanks to Metal and DirectX 12, etc. I have to express strong disagreement with this entire sentence. OpenGL on Windows desktop continues to suffer greatly from Microsoft's lack of support. OpenGL is more relevant now than ever before due to the dominance of OpenGL ES on mobile and web. Microsoft is starting to support it themselves with WebGL in IE11 and the announced iOS/Android app support for Windows 10. They even joined Khronos Group, but they're still clinging to proprietary DirectX for the Windows desktop, to nobody's benefit but their own. And finally, Vulkan is more interesting than either Metal or DX12 due to being cross-platform, and if Microsoft continues to ignore it in favor of DX12 and we have a repeat of the OpenGL vs DirectX situation it will be a huge shame.

overgard 11y ago
> OpenGL on Windows desktop continues to suffer greatly from Microsoft's lack of support In what way? I write graphics code for a living and from what I've seen opengl is basically fine on windows. They could do more, sure, but I never felt like they were getting in the way. I have mixed feelings on the directx thing. In principle I'm not a fan of directx, but in terms of API quality it's vastly better than opengl. Admittedly that's not saying much: opengl's design kind of sucks. State management when almost every state you set is global is a nightmare.
- SXX 11y ago
  > They could do more, sure, but I never felt like they were getting in the way. If you would try to ship OpenGL game you'll find out that Windows 8+ shipped with crippled AMD Legacy driver (HD2XXX-4XXX) that don't have OpenGL support in it and can't be really replaced using AMD Catalyst installer until user manually install new driver via Device Manager using extremely tricky way. There was also crippled Intel drivers without GL support, but as far as I aware new drivers are shipped with GL already.
  - ygra 11y ago
    You'd have to take that up with the hardware manufacturers, I guess. It's not like Microsoft writes said drivers and if AMD chooses to submit a DirectX-only driver for inclusion in the OS then where's MS's fault?
    - girvo 11y ago
      Actually, drivers when you're talking about companies like these are developed with Microsoft involved nearly every step of the way. If they cared about OpenGL on Windows, it would've been avoided quite likely.
    - SXX 11y ago
      I don't believe that it's AMD and Intel decision to provide crippled drivers to them. After all they never really updated these drivers after hardware become "legacy" and you won't find any package without OpenGL except what Windows 8+ installing via Windows Update. Anyway I had no intention to blame Microsoft there as likely they removed GL support from those drivers not to "harm GL", but just because they won't able to test it as it's not exist for them. Other issue is that Windows 8+ had default behavior to replace manually installed drivers with GL by newer "Microsoft version" without GL, like that: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows8_1-hardware/windows-8-default-drivers-incompatible-with-opengl/afff1ae1-d9f3-46cf-b5a3-00bfeeaae88a http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows8_1-... In the end it's only Intel and AMD fault that they don't care enough to put pressure on Microsoft or at least release proper installers. BTW Intel's "The driver being installed is not validated for this computer" bullshit only prove how little they care about GL on Windows. So comment above stated "opengl is basically fine on windows". No, it's not. Any person that tried to ship or support OpenGL-powered software know that.

8_hours_ago 11y ago

> CalDAV and CardDAV are supported on Windows Phone 8 since GDR2 as the method to sync Gmail accounts. Yes, but it only works with Gmail (and iCloud) accounts, not arbitrary CalDAV/CardDav servers. Some people have had success with adding a fake iCloud account then modifying the server address, but it's not officially supported and really shouldn't be relied on to work properly. I really hope that Windows 10 Mobile includes official support for CalDAV and CardDAV.

bad_user 11y ago

CalDAV and CardDAV are not supported on Windows Phone 8, as I'm not talking about Gmail accounts. Office Online supports ODF because they were forced to, but they continue to lobby against it. The new Outlook app for Android is a privacy invading and buggy piece of shit. And the "grandma" argument falls flat on its face when you've got an app store filled with scams, mallware and trademark violations. It's also a funny argument given that platforms other than Windows haven't suffered from viruses as much. One could say that if Windows wouldn't exist, we wouldn't have this argument in the first place.