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I've been historically what can be described a Microsoft hater and I have to tell you, missing official SSH support has never been a hate generator and insinuat

I've been historically what can be described a Microsoft hater and I have to tell you, missing official SSH support has never been a hate generator and insinuating otherwise is insulting. The first reason for which I have historically hated Microsoft is because of how they fought open standards. I can't believe that Microsoft changed in any meaningful way when I can't get a Lumia phone or Outlook to work with CalDAV / CardDAV. And that's just one current annoyance, as we can always talk about ODF, OpenGL and others. The second reason for why I hated Microsoft is for their funding of SCO's lawsuit for the ownership of Unix. That was a long time ago, they must have changed right? Except that currently they are behaving like a patent troll, extracting profit out of Android through what can be described as racketeering, more profit than they do from Windows Phone. The third reason for why I now hate Microsoft is for how they are (again) pushing for Trusted Computing. It's basically what happens when the OS provider becomes the gatekeeper of what you can install and do with your own computer. I never took this as a threat to personal computing, except that now Apple has made it acceptable. Things like insisting on logging in with Microsoft accounts, or only being able to install "modern apps" through their store (while taking a revenue cut of course) would have been unthinkable only 10 years ago. So thanks Apple for shifting the overton window, thanks Microsoft for delivering it to PCs. Of course, "hate" is a strong word. I don't really hate them, I just speak against them. But given how people fill the forums lately with messages of the second coming, I'm wondering what the heck are these people smoking, because I want some.

ksk 11y ago
If lawsuits and not supporting something you like makes you dislike a company, I'd guess that almost all corporations would be on your 'hate' list. My dislike of MS is quite simple. I simply don't like their products. That doesn't mean I automatically love OSX or Linux. IMO OSX is a mediocre product with a polished user experience and Linux as a desktop is just broken. Unfortunately, I can't say there is a single OS that I like at the moment.
- pjc50 11y ago
  I'd guess that almost all corporations would be on your 'hate' list. This is a popular position, yes. But Microsoft in particular have tried to make Linux impossible on a number of occasions over a period of decades, so it'll take a while for the guerillas to come out of the jungle and stop fighting them. But now they're in competition with the platform that want to annex all your personal data and the platform that want a veto over all applications, so they're not necessarily the most hated party in the room any more.
  - ksk 11y ago
    Linux survived because commercial vendors poured in over a billion dollars into making it a viable UNIX alternative. Microsoft's feeble attempts to sabotage it are pretty much irrelevant in that regard.
    - jraedisch 11y ago
      I think it is intent that counts here, not overall success of efforts. May they be feeble - they are still attempts of sabotage.
    - pjc50 11y ago
      It's easy to call it "feeble" because it lost, but the worst-case outcome would have ruled the POSIX API was copyright SCO (funded by Microsoft), making it infringement to distribute Linux. Linux could have survived in peaceful co-existence without the corporate billion. It would have been smaller and more hobbyist. It could not have survived if all the judgements had gone the wrong way.
- bad_user 11y ago
  That's the popularity argument. Yes, companies like Apple or Oracle are on my hate list. I like how whenever we bring up this popularity argument, we are in essence talking only about 2 or 3 companies, the big ones. Here's another picture: http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/about-us/members/ http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/about-us/members/
lstamour 11y ago
CalDAV and CardDAV are supported on Windows Phone 8 since GDR2 as the method to sync Gmail accounts. OneDrive supports ODF via Office Online. OpenGL runs fine on Windows and is less relevant now than ever thanks to Metal and DirectX 12, etc. Oh and the new Outlook app for iOS and Android also has broad support for competitors and open standards. Sure, it's through the cloud, but it works. If you want to punish companies for sand boxing, sure, but hey, how are those iOS viruses and spyware treating you? Even Google's making a kid-safe part of their app store. There will always be ways to develop or hack these devices, but safer, saner defaults are appreciated by the majority of non-technical users.
- modeless 11y ago
  > OpenGL runs fine on Windows and is less relevant now than ever thanks to Metal and DirectX 12, etc. I have to express strong disagreement with this entire sentence. OpenGL on Windows desktop continues to suffer greatly from Microsoft's lack of support. OpenGL is more relevant now than ever before due to the dominance of OpenGL ES on mobile and web. Microsoft is starting to support it themselves with WebGL in IE11 and the announced iOS/Android app support for Windows 10. They even joined Khronos Group, but they're still clinging to proprietary DirectX for the Windows desktop, to nobody's benefit but their own. And finally, Vulkan is more interesting than either Metal or DX12 due to being cross-platform, and if Microsoft continues to ignore it in favor of DX12 and we have a repeat of the OpenGL vs DirectX situation it will be a huge shame.
  - overgard 11y ago
    > OpenGL on Windows desktop continues to suffer greatly from Microsoft's lack of support In what way? I write graphics code for a living and from what I've seen opengl is basically fine on windows. They could do more, sure, but I never felt like they were getting in the way. I have mixed feelings on the directx thing. In principle I'm not a fan of directx, but in terms of API quality it's vastly better than opengl. Admittedly that's not saying much: opengl's design kind of sucks. State management when almost every state you set is global is a nightmare.
    - 11y ago

ksk 11y ago

If lawsuits and not supporting something you like makes you dislike a company, I'd guess that almost all corporations would be on your 'hate' list. My dislike of MS is quite simple. I simply don't like their products. That doesn't mean I automatically love OSX or Linux. IMO OSX is a mediocre product with a polished user experience and Linux as a desktop is just broken. Unfortunately, I can't say there is a single OS that I like at the moment.

pjc50 11y ago
I'd guess that almost all corporations would be on your 'hate' list. This is a popular position, yes. But Microsoft in particular have tried to make Linux impossible on a number of occasions over a period of decades, so it'll take a while for the guerillas to come out of the jungle and stop fighting them. But now they're in competition with the platform that want to annex all your personal data and the platform that want a veto over all applications, so they're not necessarily the most hated party in the room any more.
- ksk 11y ago
  Linux survived because commercial vendors poured in over a billion dollars into making it a viable UNIX alternative. Microsoft's feeble attempts to sabotage it are pretty much irrelevant in that regard.
  - jraedisch 11y ago
    I think it is intent that counts here, not overall success of efforts. May they be feeble - they are still attempts of sabotage.
  - pjc50 11y ago
    It's easy to call it "feeble" because it lost, but the worst-case outcome would have ruled the POSIX API was copyright SCO (funded by Microsoft), making it infringement to distribute Linux. Linux could have survived in peaceful co-existence without the corporate billion. It would have been smaller and more hobbyist. It could not have survived if all the judgements had gone the wrong way.
bad_user 11y ago
That's the popularity argument. Yes, companies like Apple or Oracle are on my hate list. I like how whenever we bring up this popularity argument, we are in essence talking only about 2 or 3 companies, the big ones. Here's another picture: http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/about-us/members/ http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/about-us/members/

lstamour 11y ago

CalDAV and CardDAV are supported on Windows Phone 8 since GDR2 as the method to sync Gmail accounts. OneDrive supports ODF via Office Online. OpenGL runs fine on Windows and is less relevant now than ever thanks to Metal and DirectX 12, etc. Oh and the new Outlook app for iOS and Android also has broad support for competitors and open standards. Sure, it's through the cloud, but it works. If you want to punish companies for sand boxing, sure, but hey, how are those iOS viruses and spyware treating you? Even Google's making a kid-safe part of their app store. There will always be ways to develop or hack these devices, but safer, saner defaults are appreciated by the majority of non-technical users.

modeless 11y ago
> OpenGL runs fine on Windows and is less relevant now than ever thanks to Metal and DirectX 12, etc. I have to express strong disagreement with this entire sentence. OpenGL on Windows desktop continues to suffer greatly from Microsoft's lack of support. OpenGL is more relevant now than ever before due to the dominance of OpenGL ES on mobile and web. Microsoft is starting to support it themselves with WebGL in IE11 and the announced iOS/Android app support for Windows 10. They even joined Khronos Group, but they're still clinging to proprietary DirectX for the Windows desktop, to nobody's benefit but their own. And finally, Vulkan is more interesting than either Metal or DX12 due to being cross-platform, and if Microsoft continues to ignore it in favor of DX12 and we have a repeat of the OpenGL vs DirectX situation it will be a huge shame.
- overgard 11y ago
  > OpenGL on Windows desktop continues to suffer greatly from Microsoft's lack of support In what way? I write graphics code for a living and from what I've seen opengl is basically fine on windows. They could do more, sure, but I never felt like they were getting in the way. I have mixed feelings on the directx thing. In principle I'm not a fan of directx, but in terms of API quality it's vastly better than opengl. Admittedly that's not saying much: opengl's design kind of sucks. State management when almost every state you set is global is a nightmare.
  - 11y ago