4 ms·

> Why were were booted from Stripe? Is it because we are in the marijuana industry? yup

smhenderson 11y ago
Agreed. The article is a bit rant-y so I had a hard time figuring out what his actual issue is but the whole time I could only think, of course it's because you're associated with the marijuana industry. IMO it will take all fifty states, DC and the federal government legalizing marijuana before industries like banking and insurance are comfortable with doing business with anyone associated with the marijuana industry.
- codeduck 11y ago
  In the USA. Then there's still the minefield of European and Asian governments - some of which view the trafficking of narcotics as a capital crime. And then there's the fact that many financial regulatory bodies are INCREDIBLY conservative.
- adevine 11y ago
  In addition, while I understand his protesting that "we just sell software", pretty much by definition he sells software to businesses (i.e. people who will be paying with Stripe) whose legality is a gray area, especially in the banking sector.
- bitcrusher 11y ago
  Maybe you're right; But something feels a bit out of focus for me, only because they're only 'involved' from the standpoint that they're selling software. If their software was called 'seed' tracker and they didn't mention Marijuana overtly, would it still be an issue? I get that Stripe can (and should) do business with whomever they choose. This guy's rant aside, I think the fringe business issues surrounding emerging industries are really interesting. Here's another example: Technically Uber has been operating in a legal grey area for a while (not unlike this software). What if companies like Stripe refused to do business with them because of their quasi-legal business? AirBnB?
  - smhenderson 11y ago
    If their software was called 'seed' tracker and they didn't mention Marijuana overtly, would it still be an issue? I think so... As others have pointed out (including the Stripe CEO apparently) the banking industry is very paranoid about the legal marijuana industry right now. There is just too much grey area, even in states where it's legal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point As for Uber and ABB, although there has been a lot of press around them and some setbacks for them here and there I just don't think people get nearly as excited about them as they are about the recent relaxation of marijuana laws. People get very hyped about marijuana (and drugs in general) being legal; it seems like one of those issues that people are pretty passionate about, whether for or against.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > If their software was called 'seed' tracker and they didn't mention Marijuana overtly, would it still be an issue? Probably. There's often a significant legal difference between selling something intended as a general use tool that happens to have utility in illegal enterprises and selling something that is specifically designed and marketed as a tool for a specific class of criminal enterprise.
- at-fates-hands 11y ago
  Its really aligning the Federal Laws with the state laws so that people in states where its legal don't constantly have to look over their shoulders. We've all seen and heard how abusive the Feds can be when they want to make a point - this is what keeps a lot of these businesses weary of getting involved in this industry.
Alupis 11y ago
This is probably the real reason behind it. Regardless of your own personal feeling on the subject, you have to recognize it's a Felony, and banking/payment service providers have to follow the current laws and regulations. Federal law is always supreme to state/local laws.
- hullo 11y ago
  What's a felony? Writing software that helps manage compliance with the law? That doesn't sound quite right.
  - Alupis 11y ago
    > What's a felony? Frankly, it's a felony to support the drug trade (including marijuana) in any capacity. I didn't make the laws... just pointing it out. A lot of people think that since their state supports marijuana, then everyone should... but in reality businesses not in your state, especially banking institutions, have a lot of incentive to not participate. It's unreasonable to get mad at your banking institution (Stripe in this case) because they pulled the plug on a very risky customer who might have gotten them put under the Fed spotlight.
    - jacquesm 11y ago
      > Frankly, it's a felony to support the drug trade (including marijuana) in any capacity. Fertilizer? Grow lamps? Water? You're going to have to draw a line somewhere, 'support' is such a wide term you could technically shut down the power company for supporting the drug trade. I think the description should at least contain a 'knowingly' and 'primarily' otherwise any garden center is at risk of being shut down.
      - Alupis 11y ago
        From the article: > A few months ago we started using Stripe as they payment gateway for our marijuana regulatory compliance software It's pretty painfully obvious this company was "knowingly" and "primarily" supporting drug trade.
probdist 11y ago
If I was involved in payment processing, I would not want to even distantly be associated with that industry. The federal regulatory authorities have not been kind to banking efforts in the space.
igorgue 11y ago
Right now, most financial institutions are scared to do anything with the marijuana industry. Here's an article about that: http://www.vice.com/read/colorado-bankers-are-still-scared-of-weed-money-725 http://www.vice.com/read/colorado-bankers-are-still-scared-o...
makeitsuckless 11y ago
Besides that being a debatable reason, why doesn't Stripe not just come out and say that? These are Paypal levels of communication, and from stories linked elsewhere in this thread, not an incident.
ProAm 11y ago
> Stripe can only support users with a low risk of customer disputes–after reviewing your submitted information and website, it does seem like your site presents a higher level of risk than we can currently support. They sure worded that poorly.

Agreed. The article is a bit rant-y so I had a hard time figuring out what his actual issue is but the whole time I could only think, of course it's because you're associated with the marijuana industry. IMO it will take all fifty states, DC and the federal government legalizing marijuana before industries like banking and insurance are comfortable with doing business with anyone associated with the marijuana industry.

codeduck 11y ago
In the USA. Then there's still the minefield of European and Asian governments - some of which view the trafficking of narcotics as a capital crime. And then there's the fact that many financial regulatory bodies are INCREDIBLY conservative.
adevine 11y ago
In addition, while I understand his protesting that "we just sell software", pretty much by definition he sells software to businesses (i.e. people who will be paying with Stripe) whose legality is a gray area, especially in the banking sector.
bitcrusher 11y ago
Maybe you're right; But something feels a bit out of focus for me, only because they're only 'involved' from the standpoint that they're selling software. If their software was called 'seed' tracker and they didn't mention Marijuana overtly, would it still be an issue? I get that Stripe can (and should) do business with whomever they choose. This guy's rant aside, I think the fringe business issues surrounding emerging industries are really interesting. Here's another example: Technically Uber has been operating in a legal grey area for a while (not unlike this software). What if companies like Stripe refused to do business with them because of their quasi-legal business? AirBnB?
- smhenderson 11y ago
  If their software was called 'seed' tracker and they didn't mention Marijuana overtly, would it still be an issue? I think so... As others have pointed out (including the Stripe CEO apparently) the banking industry is very paranoid about the legal marijuana industry right now. There is just too much grey area, even in states where it's legal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point As for Uber and ABB, although there has been a lot of press around them and some setbacks for them here and there I just don't think people get nearly as excited about them as they are about the recent relaxation of marijuana laws. People get very hyped about marijuana (and drugs in general) being legal; it seems like one of those issues that people are pretty passionate about, whether for or against.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > If their software was called 'seed' tracker and they didn't mention Marijuana overtly, would it still be an issue? Probably. There's often a significant legal difference between selling something intended as a general use tool that happens to have utility in illegal enterprises and selling something that is specifically designed and marketed as a tool for a specific class of criminal enterprise.
at-fates-hands 11y ago
Its really aligning the Federal Laws with the state laws so that people in states where its legal don't constantly have to look over their shoulders. We've all seen and heard how abusive the Feds can be when they want to make a point - this is what keeps a lot of these businesses weary of getting involved in this industry.

Alupis 11y ago

This is probably the real reason behind it. Regardless of your own personal feeling on the subject, you have to recognize it's a Felony, and banking/payment service providers have to follow the current laws and regulations. Federal law is always supreme to state/local laws.

hullo 11y ago
What's a felony? Writing software that helps manage compliance with the law? That doesn't sound quite right.
- Alupis 11y ago
  > What's a felony? Frankly, it's a felony to support the drug trade (including marijuana) in any capacity. I didn't make the laws... just pointing it out. A lot of people think that since their state supports marijuana, then everyone should... but in reality businesses not in your state, especially banking institutions, have a lot of incentive to not participate. It's unreasonable to get mad at your banking institution (Stripe in this case) because they pulled the plug on a very risky customer who might have gotten them put under the Fed spotlight.
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    > Frankly, it's a felony to support the drug trade (including marijuana) in any capacity. Fertilizer? Grow lamps? Water? You're going to have to draw a line somewhere, 'support' is such a wide term you could technically shut down the power company for supporting the drug trade. I think the description should at least contain a 'knowingly' and 'primarily' otherwise any garden center is at risk of being shut down.
    - Alupis 11y ago
      From the article: > A few months ago we started using Stripe as they payment gateway for our marijuana regulatory compliance software It's pretty painfully obvious this company was "knowingly" and "primarily" supporting drug trade.

probdist 11y ago

If I was involved in payment processing, I would not want to even distantly be associated with that industry. The federal regulatory authorities have not been kind to banking efforts in the space.

igorgue 11y ago

Right now, most financial institutions are scared to do anything with the marijuana industry. Here's an article about that: http://www.vice.com/read/colorado-bankers-are-still-scared-of-weed-money-725 http://www.vice.com/read/colorado-bankers-are-still-scared-o...

makeitsuckless 11y ago

Besides that being a debatable reason, why doesn't Stripe not just come out and say that? These are Paypal levels of communication, and from stories linked elsewhere in this thread, not an incident.

ProAm 11y ago

> Stripe can only support users with a low risk of customer disputes–after reviewing your submitted information and website, it does seem like your site presents a higher level of risk than we can currently support. They sure worded that poorly.