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Really great read; sheds light on some things I never understood about china, but now it makes sense. Goverment: "Stop making so many babies! that's it, just o

Really great read; sheds light on some things I never understood about china, but now it makes sense. Goverment: "Stop making so many babies! that's it, just one per couple." Citizens: "well, if we can only have one, we better make sure it's a boy!" What could go wrong? Yes, woman are gaining some upper hand here; and thats good. But it's not because of a change of outlooks or perspectives of the people, it's simply out of scarcity of the gender. And what happens when there aren't enough women to go around? why, they import them of course! And by import I mean sex slavery and arranged marriages. "life...finds a way..." to keep on fuckin'

meric 11y ago
Your comment reminds me of this story: https://sivers.org/horses https://sivers.org/horses "One-child policy" Bad policy. "Woman gaining upper hand" Yay. <Insert unintended consequence> Yeah, China's screwed. I'll wait and see.
- kawsper 11y ago
  I really like that story you are linking to. I first heard it being told by Aaron Weiss from the band mewithoutyou here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZJJtw2DHfY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZJJtw2DHfY
  - meric 11y ago
    Hey thanks for linking to the video, really enjoyed it.
mrweasel 11y ago
>Citizens: "well, if we can only have one, we better make sure it's a boy!" I get the feeling that the people who invented the "One child policy" where at a different stage in civilization/education/whatever you call, than the people for whom they made the rule. So they didn't even consider that the public might choose to get rid of their girls. China has been extremely focus on reaching the western standards of living, but their culture haven't been able to keep up. I think it's great that they addressed the issue of over-population, something that a country like India has failed to do. Their error was that they didn't try to bring about lower birth rates though education and welfare programs and instead opted for punishment. The Chinese where given an incentive to abort girls, so in hindsight it's not a surprise that things have worked out the way they have.
- param 11y ago
  > they addressed the issue of over-population, something that a country like India has failed to do India took the path to education and propaganda to voluntarily reduce the fertility rate. I don't think India has failed in its initiatives. Instead, I think they are going extremely well given that there is no legal limit on how many kids you can have. India is on track to reach peak-population by 2060. [1] Most educated middle class couples would not think of having more than 2 kids (this has been true for the last 15/20+ years) and now we are entering a phase where a small minority is choosing to go without kids, completely.[2] The total fertility rate in India has gone from 6 to 2.5 in the last 50 years. (Google for "total fertility rate india") Edit: One more thing - there are 11 states in India that are at or below a TFR of 2.1 [3]. Net net - far from a failure, India is making good progress. [1]: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Indias-population-will-peak-at-1-7bn-in-2060-UN-study/articleshow/8164798.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Indias-population-w... [2]: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/relationships/parenting/No-kids-please/articleshow/6859698.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/relationships/... [3]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_states_ranking_by_fertility_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_states_ranking_by_fertil...
  - mrweasel 11y ago
    I did not know that. I would agree that going fertility rate from 6 to 2.5 is anything but a failure. It might take longer, but it's probably a much better solution that the "One child policy" in the long run.
  - hedgew 11y ago
    It's well known that birth rate decreases as a nation's economic status increases. India has also gone through massive economic changes in the last 50 years, which is likely to have affected fertility rates much more than propaganda. I'd like to see studies with control groups before believing that voluntary methods can significantly impact fertility rates.
    - param 11y ago
      Voluntary: done, given, or acting of one's own free will India's population control has been voluntary. Aside from a failed attempt in 1975 (declaration of emergency/forced castration of a negligible number of people), all of the decline in fertility in India has been voluntary.
baldfat 11y ago
Seems a better way is to follow the shoes of Germany and Japan. Those coutnries if they don't turn things around will be a 2/3 of what they were in just 40 years. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/14/world/europe/germany-fights-population-drop.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/14/world/europe/germany-fight...
- meesterdude 11y ago
  Whoa, Japan I knew about but I didn't know germany was in similar straights. Interesting considering both of them were heavily involved in WW2; though I can't say how related/coincidental it is.
  - Thimothy 11y ago
    Actually, most of Europe, but France, is the same boat. Looks like having the some of the best pregnacy laws in the world has its advantages. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageing_of_Europe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageing_of_Europe

meric 11y ago

Your comment reminds me of this story: https://sivers.org/horses https://sivers.org/horses "One-child policy" Bad policy. "Woman gaining upper hand" Yay. <Insert unintended consequence> Yeah, China's screwed. I'll wait and see.

kawsper 11y ago
I really like that story you are linking to. I first heard it being told by Aaron Weiss from the band mewithoutyou here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZJJtw2DHfY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZJJtw2DHfY
- meric 11y ago
  Hey thanks for linking to the video, really enjoyed it.

mrweasel 11y ago

>Citizens: "well, if we can only have one, we better make sure it's a boy!" I get the feeling that the people who invented the "One child policy" where at a different stage in civilization/education/whatever you call, than the people for whom they made the rule. So they didn't even consider that the public might choose to get rid of their girls. China has been extremely focus on reaching the western standards of living, but their culture haven't been able to keep up. I think it's great that they addressed the issue of over-population, something that a country like India has failed to do. Their error was that they didn't try to bring about lower birth rates though education and welfare programs and instead opted for punishment. The Chinese where given an incentive to abort girls, so in hindsight it's not a surprise that things have worked out the way they have.

param 11y ago
> they addressed the issue of over-population, something that a country like India has failed to do India took the path to education and propaganda to voluntarily reduce the fertility rate. I don't think India has failed in its initiatives. Instead, I think they are going extremely well given that there is no legal limit on how many kids you can have. India is on track to reach peak-population by 2060. [1] Most educated middle class couples would not think of having more than 2 kids (this has been true for the last 15/20+ years) and now we are entering a phase where a small minority is choosing to go without kids, completely.[2] The total fertility rate in India has gone from 6 to 2.5 in the last 50 years. (Google for "total fertility rate india") Edit: One more thing - there are 11 states in India that are at or below a TFR of 2.1 [3]. Net net - far from a failure, India is making good progress. [1]: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Indias-population-will-peak-at-1-7bn-in-2060-UN-study/articleshow/8164798.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Indias-population-w... [2]: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/relationships/parenting/No-kids-please/articleshow/6859698.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/relationships/... [3]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_states_ranking_by_fertility_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_states_ranking_by_fertil...
- mrweasel 11y ago
  I did not know that. I would agree that going fertility rate from 6 to 2.5 is anything but a failure. It might take longer, but it's probably a much better solution that the "One child policy" in the long run.
- hedgew 11y ago
  It's well known that birth rate decreases as a nation's economic status increases. India has also gone through massive economic changes in the last 50 years, which is likely to have affected fertility rates much more than propaganda. I'd like to see studies with control groups before believing that voluntary methods can significantly impact fertility rates.
  - param 11y ago
    Voluntary: done, given, or acting of one's own free will India's population control has been voluntary. Aside from a failed attempt in 1975 (declaration of emergency/forced castration of a negligible number of people), all of the decline in fertility in India has been voluntary.

baldfat 11y ago

Seems a better way is to follow the shoes of Germany and Japan. Those coutnries if they don't turn things around will be a 2/3 of what they were in just 40 years. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/14/world/europe/germany-fights-population-drop.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/14/world/europe/germany-fight...

meesterdude 11y ago
Whoa, Japan I knew about but I didn't know germany was in similar straights. Interesting considering both of them were heavily involved in WW2; though I can't say how related/coincidental it is.
- Thimothy 11y ago
  Actually, most of Europe, but France, is the same boat. Looks like having the some of the best pregnacy laws in the world has its advantages. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageing_of_Europe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageing_of_Europe