5 ms·

And the pressure is more intense on middle class Indians (most of whom come here for a Bachelors or Masters) and are on a H1-B. The H1-B is basically corporate

And the pressure is more intense on middle class Indians (most of whom come here for a Bachelors or Masters) and are on a H1-B. The H1-B is basically corporate enslavement and add to that the sadistic societal structure of Indian culture, you have a perfect recipe where young professionals are caught in-between the devil and the deep blue sea: Either work your ass off (I used to work 80+ hrs) to please your manager (most of the time without any recognition) or say FU and head back to India to face the shameful wrath of both your parents and relatives (you're a failure now. You couldn't make it unlike Mr. Rahul's son who is now a manager).

bch 11y ago
What's the "corporate enslavement" aspect of an H1-B ? What would be a preferred "work-a-like" ?
- curiousDog 11y ago
  I actually agree with Prof. Norman Matloff's proposal: http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/Summary.pdf http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/Summary.pdf Section 10.3. The rest of the document is a great primer on the whole H1-B system as well. Currently, there is an incredible amount of fraud in this area.
  - GFischer 11y ago
    That article is awful, and made wholly unaccurate predictions (that's not to say that H1B is bad): "the American software developer will become extinct within the next few years" "the Impact Innovations Group even estimates a precise date at which the “extinction” of the American programmer will occur—2006" I understand that American developers can feel that H1B's depresses their salaries (it probably does, if I went to the U.S. I'd probably accept a lower rate than I would have were I a native born American). I also see that H1B is not a good place to be as an inmigrant (and that's why I chose not to accept it and I'm not going to the U.S.)
    - bch 11y ago
      > I also see that H1B is not a good place to be as an inmigrant (and that's why I chose not to accept it and I'm not going to the U.S.) What _is_ the issue you have w/ the H1B (and are there other tools available to you ? Do you qualify for a TN Visa ?)
      - curiousDog 11y ago
        Okay, the main issue is tht your visa is tied to your employer, i.e you belong to your employer. You cannot work for anyone else at the same time. If you leave your employer, you should leave the country.
      - GFischer 11y ago
        Basically, that it's a lottery, and that it's not a clear path to a green card, and all the uncertainty surrounding your situation if you are out of a job. You go through all the work to land a job, and then you don't get lucky it's a year in limbo for you and your family (maybe the company sends you to another country and you get transferred with an L-1). After that, it's a decade working as an employee (with travel and work abroad restrictions) to even qualify for a Green Card. And the EMPLOYER has to do the Green Card application (with all the hoops). That restricts your movements significantly, and god forbid your employer goes through a rough patch. http://www.h1bwiki.com/green_card_application_process_workflow/ http://www.h1bwiki.com/green_card_application_process_workfl... It's very ridiculous. If you plan to build a family or grow roots in the U.S., it's extremely stressful. Sadly, the U.S. is the mecca of IT workers (no other place I know pays such high wages for IT professionals, maybe the UAE or something). As long as I can get a living wage in my country, I'll stay here (and try to sell my services to the U.S.).
        dragonwriter 11y ago
        > Basically, that it's a lottery Actual immigrant visas in most categories are also lotteries. The eligible applicants generally exceed the caps, and the lotteries is how the actual awarded visas are kept within the caps.
eshvk 11y ago
I am kind of conflicted by this message. So I sympathize with the situation you were in, I was on an H1B for three months during which my company went through layoffs. It was kind of ridiculous in that the layoffs were on a Monday and my Green Card interview as on the following Friday. The amount of stress I went through was intense. Despite now knowing that I would probably have gotten atleast 2 weeks of a paid holiday which would have ensured that the green card would have gone through. And I can see some unethical managers exploiting that situation. However, I have worked around people of all different origins, immigrant, Indian born and culturally Indian, I want to say that it really is a function of your personality and the job situation you are in. My current company has quite a few Indians (born and bred) who work normal 9-5 hours while being on an H1B. Ironically enough I work more insane hours these days. Not cause I particularly am in fear of my job. Because I have finally found that niche that I am good at. And I am in a hurry to achieve some life goals. I am of Indian origin, born and grew up in Africa. I have gone to India and witnessed first hand all the bullshit rigmarole that goes around in enforcing a cult-like structure. I also refused to accept that as my choice in life and left. I do understand how that choice might be harder for someone whose ties are much stronger. I guess where I am conflicted is this implied message in your comment that it is totally about the societal structure and the corporate enslavement. You always have a choice. i.e. if your individuality matters to you.
- curiousDog 11y ago
  > I am of Indian origin, born and grew up in Africa. That makes two of us :-)!

bch 11y ago

What's the "corporate enslavement" aspect of an H1-B ? What would be a preferred "work-a-like" ?

curiousDog 11y ago
I actually agree with Prof. Norman Matloff's proposal: http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/Summary.pdf http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/Summary.pdf Section 10.3. The rest of the document is a great primer on the whole H1-B system as well. Currently, there is an incredible amount of fraud in this area.
- GFischer 11y ago
  That article is awful, and made wholly unaccurate predictions (that's not to say that H1B is bad): "the American software developer will become extinct within the next few years" "the Impact Innovations Group even estimates a precise date at which the “extinction” of the American programmer will occur—2006" I understand that American developers can feel that H1B's depresses their salaries (it probably does, if I went to the U.S. I'd probably accept a lower rate than I would have were I a native born American). I also see that H1B is not a good place to be as an inmigrant (and that's why I chose not to accept it and I'm not going to the U.S.)
  - bch 11y ago
    > I also see that H1B is not a good place to be as an inmigrant (and that's why I chose not to accept it and I'm not going to the U.S.) What _is_ the issue you have w/ the H1B (and are there other tools available to you ? Do you qualify for a TN Visa ?)
    - curiousDog 11y ago
      Okay, the main issue is tht your visa is tied to your employer, i.e you belong to your employer. You cannot work for anyone else at the same time. If you leave your employer, you should leave the country.
    - GFischer 11y ago
      Basically, that it's a lottery, and that it's not a clear path to a green card, and all the uncertainty surrounding your situation if you are out of a job. You go through all the work to land a job, and then you don't get lucky it's a year in limbo for you and your family (maybe the company sends you to another country and you get transferred with an L-1). After that, it's a decade working as an employee (with travel and work abroad restrictions) to even qualify for a Green Card. And the EMPLOYER has to do the Green Card application (with all the hoops). That restricts your movements significantly, and god forbid your employer goes through a rough patch. http://www.h1bwiki.com/green_card_application_process_workflow/ http://www.h1bwiki.com/green_card_application_process_workfl... It's very ridiculous. If you plan to build a family or grow roots in the U.S., it's extremely stressful. Sadly, the U.S. is the mecca of IT workers (no other place I know pays such high wages for IT professionals, maybe the UAE or something). As long as I can get a living wage in my country, I'll stay here (and try to sell my services to the U.S.).
      - dragonwriter 11y ago
        > Basically, that it's a lottery Actual immigrant visas in most categories are also lotteries. The eligible applicants generally exceed the caps, and the lotteries is how the actual awarded visas are kept within the caps.

eshvk 11y ago

I am kind of conflicted by this message. So I sympathize with the situation you were in, I was on an H1B for three months during which my company went through layoffs. It was kind of ridiculous in that the layoffs were on a Monday and my Green Card interview as on the following Friday. The amount of stress I went through was intense. Despite now knowing that I would probably have gotten atleast 2 weeks of a paid holiday which would have ensured that the green card would have gone through. And I can see some unethical managers exploiting that situation. However, I have worked around people of all different origins, immigrant, Indian born and culturally Indian, I want to say that it really is a function of your personality and the job situation you are in. My current company has quite a few Indians (born and bred) who work normal 9-5 hours while being on an H1B. Ironically enough I work more insane hours these days. Not cause I particularly am in fear of my job. Because I have finally found that niche that I am good at. And I am in a hurry to achieve some life goals. I am of Indian origin, born and grew up in Africa. I have gone to India and witnessed first hand all the bullshit rigmarole that goes around in enforcing a cult-like structure. I also refused to accept that as my choice in life and left. I do understand how that choice might be harder for someone whose ties are much stronger. I guess where I am conflicted is this implied message in your comment that it is totally about the societal structure and the corporate enslavement. You always have a choice. i.e. if your individuality matters to you.

curiousDog 11y ago
> I am of Indian origin, born and grew up in Africa. That makes two of us :-)!