4 ms·

'Normal' was fairly biased, as it mostly refers to an average western individual. Nothing wrong with it, but why not avoid the negative aspects of it? Why not

by dataker 11y ago

'Normal' was fairly biased, as it mostly refers to an average western individual. Nothing wrong with it, but why not avoid the negative aspects of it? Why not fostering your own culture?

guard-of-terra 11y ago
Their culture failed them by bringing islamists in power, might as well discard it. P. S. Mine failed me either so I know what I'm talking about.
- digi_owl 11y ago
  that did not happen without meddling from the west...
  - guard-of-terra 11y ago
    Sure but it's not the west that took hit. They can meddle with you and get away with it. Too bad. Go complain to your god. Go burn some flags. "You should not blame the west, you should become the west".
    - digi_owl 11y ago
      I truly love how you assume i am Iranian just because i brought that up...
  - dmix 11y ago
    Iran has been isolationist and authoritarian forever, since the beginning of its history centuries ago. The persians held onto their obsession with religious leaders and sharia courts well after the vast majority of the middle east moved on. Even during Ottoman muslim rule where sharia and strictly religious leaders were semi-tolerated there was very little compromise in Iran. I'm not saying America was right, I'm against intervention, but Iran was hardly on-course to anything except a repeat of their despots that ruled for thousands of years. Their one western-friendly leader was just a minor short-lived detour in their very long history of authoritarianism.
    - 616c 11y ago
      What is your source? http://www.amazon.com/Islam-Without-Allah-Religious-Externalism/dp/1138010677 http://www.amazon.com/Islam-Without-Allah-Religious-External... This "Iran has been this way" bullshit is the same nonsense I called out in a previous article about how Hezbollah is some Iranian cleric + Syrian Asad backdoor meeting became a movement BS. Iran's history is more complex than that. TL;DR Iran was not Shi'a, it became Shi'a, for political and politicized reasons, and was racheted up and down over the last few centuries and the authoritarian isolationism is a product of that now. So maybe I am wrong, but what do you base this on? (There are many books on this topic, not just this one, I just know even this one was translated to Arabic by a reputable publisher; more factual academic works exist and this is the modern Western analysis of Iran coming from when I was in school 5-10 years back in these BS Arab/regional courses, and Iran is lumped in.)
      - dmix 11y ago
        I recently read a book on the history of the middle east [1]. Pretty much every reference to Iran in the last thousand years was to how they are still isolationist and clung onto their religious leaders while other parts of the middle east made progress (politically, economic, and otherwise). There were moments of greatness in Persian history no doubt, and even Afghanistan became a Persian cultural center. But the later history, post middle ages set a pretty strong pattern that hasnt seemed to have changed. I'm planning to read more on the subject, particularily a book about the history of Shia [2]. I'm not calling myself a total expert on the subject. I'm open to be convinced otherwise... [1] http://www.amazon.com/History-Middle-East-Fourth/dp/0143121901 http://www.amazon.com/History-Middle-East-Fourth/dp/01431219... [2] http://www.amazon.com/Shia-Revival-Conflicts-within-Future-ebook/dp/B000U0O9FC/ http://www.amazon.com/Shia-Revival-Conflicts-within-Future-e...
        616c 11y ago
        I avoid the journo turns historian books like [1], but I will have to check out [2]. When I took a clas in Shi'a history, Vali Nasr wrote a lot of material cited in it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vali_Nasr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vali_Nasr I am never quite sure if I like him, because of his seemingly packaged for Western consumption views of Iran in his books. But then again, I am hardly an expert, and hardly Iranian. I just think Iran transitioned in and out of phases, and its interaction culturally with the Abbasid Empire at one point and wars fought in the region makes me see them differently. My interpretation is probably just biased.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]

by dataker 11y ago

'Normal' was fairly biased, as it mostly refers to an average western individual. Nothing wrong with it, but why not avoid the negative aspects of it? Why not fostering your own culture?

guard-of-terra 11y ago

Their culture failed them by bringing islamists in power, might as well discard it. P. S. Mine failed me either so I know what I'm talking about.

digi_owl 11y ago
that did not happen without meddling from the west...
- guard-of-terra 11y ago
  Sure but it's not the west that took hit. They can meddle with you and get away with it. Too bad. Go complain to your god. Go burn some flags. "You should not blame the west, you should become the west".
  - digi_owl 11y ago
    I truly love how you assume i am Iranian just because i brought that up...
- dmix 11y ago
  Iran has been isolationist and authoritarian forever, since the beginning of its history centuries ago. The persians held onto their obsession with religious leaders and sharia courts well after the vast majority of the middle east moved on. Even during Ottoman muslim rule where sharia and strictly religious leaders were semi-tolerated there was very little compromise in Iran. I'm not saying America was right, I'm against intervention, but Iran was hardly on-course to anything except a repeat of their despots that ruled for thousands of years. Their one western-friendly leader was just a minor short-lived detour in their very long history of authoritarianism.
  - 616c 11y ago
    What is your source? http://www.amazon.com/Islam-Without-Allah-Religious-Externalism/dp/1138010677 http://www.amazon.com/Islam-Without-Allah-Religious-External... This "Iran has been this way" bullshit is the same nonsense I called out in a previous article about how Hezbollah is some Iranian cleric + Syrian Asad backdoor meeting became a movement BS. Iran's history is more complex than that. TL;DR Iran was not Shi'a, it became Shi'a, for political and politicized reasons, and was racheted up and down over the last few centuries and the authoritarian isolationism is a product of that now. So maybe I am wrong, but what do you base this on? (There are many books on this topic, not just this one, I just know even this one was translated to Arabic by a reputable publisher; more factual academic works exist and this is the modern Western analysis of Iran coming from when I was in school 5-10 years back in these BS Arab/regional courses, and Iran is lumped in.)
    - dmix 11y ago
      I recently read a book on the history of the middle east [1]. Pretty much every reference to Iran in the last thousand years was to how they are still isolationist and clung onto their religious leaders while other parts of the middle east made progress (politically, economic, and otherwise). There were moments of greatness in Persian history no doubt, and even Afghanistan became a Persian cultural center. But the later history, post middle ages set a pretty strong pattern that hasnt seemed to have changed. I'm planning to read more on the subject, particularily a book about the history of Shia [2]. I'm not calling myself a total expert on the subject. I'm open to be convinced otherwise... [1] http://www.amazon.com/History-Middle-East-Fourth/dp/0143121901 http://www.amazon.com/History-Middle-East-Fourth/dp/01431219... [2] http://www.amazon.com/Shia-Revival-Conflicts-within-Future-ebook/dp/B000U0O9FC/ http://www.amazon.com/Shia-Revival-Conflicts-within-Future-e...
      - 616c 11y ago
        I avoid the journo turns historian books like [1], but I will have to check out [2]. When I took a clas in Shi'a history, Vali Nasr wrote a lot of material cited in it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vali_Nasr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vali_Nasr I am never quite sure if I like him, because of his seemingly packaged for Western consumption views of Iran in his books. But then again, I am hardly an expert, and hardly Iranian. I just think Iran transitioned in and out of phases, and its interaction culturally with the Abbasid Empire at one point and wars fought in the region makes me see them differently. My interpretation is probably just biased.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]