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So basically, the principles of economics upset him, but he understands them. Maybe, just maybe, instead of using grad students and post-docs as slave labor so

by FD3SA 11y ago

So basically, the principles of economics upset him, but he understands them. Maybe, just maybe, instead of using grad students and post-docs as slave labor so he can slap his name on their hard work, he could instead advocate for better pay and working conditions for them using his privileged position of PI?

bpyne 11y ago
Do you know that he hasn't advocated for better pay/working conditions? Professors run the full gamut of opinion on this issue. Without knowing him, I would think it difficult to know his stance. As far as slapping his name on their hard work, it's a symbiotic relationship. He works with his grad students individually on their research: guiding them away from dead-end areas, provoking them to dig into certain areas while providing references as starting points, helping them with the fine points of writing up their research, and using his contacts and reputation to secure academic positions when they graduate. In turn, yes, his name goes first on some papers. If he did nothing to help them, I'd say they have a legitimate gripe. In his case, he's available to them all the time. "So basically, the principles of economics upset him, but he understands them." The "principles of economics" are not the issue. His program is sought after, so he had to turn someone down in order to fund the person who decided to leave. Yes, it upsets him.
noelsusman 11y ago
It's really not that easy. Professors in these fields are severely underpaid themselves. Besides, it's not slave labor and professors generally don't steal credit from their grad students.
jrock08 11y ago
As a grad student, let me explain why I don't think I'm getting ripped off. 1) I have (at least) weekly meetings with advisors who can charge >$250/hr as a consultant. They are brilliant, and our conversations are enlightening, and they actually care about the outcomes of their students. This might be out of the ordinary, but I've never felt exploited by my advisors. In CS, advisors are very aware that their students are giving up significant salaries to do a PhD. 2) I get paid enough to live, not incredibly well, but I make a median salary in the area, and at this point in my life I'm more than willing to share a 2br 2ba apt. 3) I'm encouraged to do internships which do pay extremely well, and on top of my living wage at school, mean I live really well. 4) I want a job that requires a PhD. Sure I could drop out, take my masters in AI, brand myself as a data-scientist and get a job doing some ML programming at a hedge fund making 300k base with 1MM bonus, but working at a research lab, or at a tier 2 institute as a faculty member seems like a much better life in the long run.

by FD3SA 11y ago

bpyne 11y ago

Do you know that he hasn't advocated for better pay/working conditions? Professors run the full gamut of opinion on this issue. Without knowing him, I would think it difficult to know his stance. As far as slapping his name on their hard work, it's a symbiotic relationship. He works with his grad students individually on their research: guiding them away from dead-end areas, provoking them to dig into certain areas while providing references as starting points, helping them with the fine points of writing up their research, and using his contacts and reputation to secure academic positions when they graduate. In turn, yes, his name goes first on some papers. If he did nothing to help them, I'd say they have a legitimate gripe. In his case, he's available to them all the time. "So basically, the principles of economics upset him, but he understands them." The "principles of economics" are not the issue. His program is sought after, so he had to turn someone down in order to fund the person who decided to leave. Yes, it upsets him.

noelsusman 11y ago

It's really not that easy. Professors in these fields are severely underpaid themselves. Besides, it's not slave labor and professors generally don't steal credit from their grad students.

jrock08 11y ago

As a grad student, let me explain why I don't think I'm getting ripped off. 1) I have (at least) weekly meetings with advisors who can charge >$250/hr as a consultant. They are brilliant, and our conversations are enlightening, and they actually care about the outcomes of their students. This might be out of the ordinary, but I've never felt exploited by my advisors. In CS, advisors are very aware that their students are giving up significant salaries to do a PhD. 2) I get paid enough to live, not incredibly well, but I make a median salary in the area, and at this point in my life I'm more than willing to share a 2br 2ba apt. 3) I'm encouraged to do internships which do pay extremely well, and on top of my living wage at school, mean I live really well. 4) I want a job that requires a PhD. Sure I could drop out, take my masters in AI, brand myself as a data-scientist and get a job doing some ML programming at a hedge fund making 300k base with 1MM bonus, but working at a research lab, or at a tier 2 institute as a faculty member seems like a much better life in the long run.