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That this is the top comment shows how unrealistic opinions on some subjects are on HN. Spies should not be spying, soldiers should not be fighting, there shoul

That this is the top comment shows how unrealistic opinions on some subjects are on HN. Spies should not be spying, soldiers should not be fighting, there should be no countries. Might as well ask for unicorns.

rmxt 11y ago
You made the unfortunate jump to the other extreme from the GP: nowhere did the GP say or imply that "spies should not be spying, soldiers should not be fighting." There's room for nuance between "dragnet surveillance" and "no covert operations," but you seem to have missed that.
- happyscrappy 11y ago
  If they are not supposed to spy on Americans or foreigners what exactly are they supposed to do?
  - rmxt 11y ago
    No one (in this thread at least) has said that they are not supposed to "spy" completely. What people are concerned with is dragnet surveillance. The way you are framing the issue is a classic case of a false dilemma. EDIT: My apologies, it looks like the top comment does drop that in at the end. That is indeed an unfortunate generalization. I do think that a more moderate and "middle-of-the-HN-crowd" approach would actually entail something short of dragnet surveillance though.
mrweasel 11y ago
Soldiers aren't asked to shoot every single foreigner traveling through your country, just in case they may want to hurt you. There's nothing wrong in having an intelligence agency that spy on people you may suspect of wanting to hurt you or your country. What the US does, other countries do this as well, is spying on people that aren't suspected of anything, even people living in their own or allied countries. Even worse is that in the process of ensuring that they are able to do this surveillance they actively harm people legitimate ability to have anonymous or secret conversations. As someone living in a country that views it self, even prides it self on being a close ally of the US, I find the US behavior reprehensible. "Yeah, let's be friend, trade and support each other, but just to be sure I'll also go through your mail", that's no way for a civilized country to behave. I know this may read like a tirade against the US and that unfortunate, because other countries are just as bad. I'm equally disappointed by my own country and our politicians, it's just their actions have yet to be fully revealed.

rmxt 11y ago

You made the unfortunate jump to the other extreme from the GP: nowhere did the GP say or imply that "spies should not be spying, soldiers should not be fighting." There's room for nuance between "dragnet surveillance" and "no covert operations," but you seem to have missed that.

happyscrappy 11y ago
If they are not supposed to spy on Americans or foreigners what exactly are they supposed to do?
- rmxt 11y ago
  No one (in this thread at least) has said that they are not supposed to "spy" completely. What people are concerned with is dragnet surveillance. The way you are framing the issue is a classic case of a false dilemma. EDIT: My apologies, it looks like the top comment does drop that in at the end. That is indeed an unfortunate generalization. I do think that a more moderate and "middle-of-the-HN-crowd" approach would actually entail something short of dragnet surveillance though.

mrweasel 11y ago

Soldiers aren't asked to shoot every single foreigner traveling through your country, just in case they may want to hurt you. There's nothing wrong in having an intelligence agency that spy on people you may suspect of wanting to hurt you or your country. What the US does, other countries do this as well, is spying on people that aren't suspected of anything, even people living in their own or allied countries. Even worse is that in the process of ensuring that they are able to do this surveillance they actively harm people legitimate ability to have anonymous or secret conversations. As someone living in a country that views it self, even prides it self on being a close ally of the US, I find the US behavior reprehensible. "Yeah, let's be friend, trade and support each other, but just to be sure I'll also go through your mail", that's no way for a civilized country to behave. I know this may read like a tirade against the US and that unfortunate, because other countries are just as bad. I'm equally disappointed by my own country and our politicians, it's just their actions have yet to be fully revealed.