8 ms·

The Leafs were under-achievers last year and recently hired arguably the best coach in the league in Mike Babcock. I expect them to be in the playoffs next yea

by vaadu 11y ago

The Leafs were under-achievers last year and recently hired arguably the best coach in the league in Mike Babcock. I expect them to be in the playoffs next year and contending for the cup in the near future. The Leafs are also the the most valuable team in the NHL. http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/ http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/

slickwilli 11y ago
As a Wings fan I am actually happy for you guys
slantyyz 11y ago
>> contending for the cup in the near future. You can't be serious about that, can you? They usually make an expensive PR move every few years when it looks like they run the risk of fans keeping their money in their wallets, but don't often follow up with results. Granted, Pat Burns got great results in 92/93 with a team full of scrubs when he took over the Leafs (don't get me started on that non-call on Gretzky in 92 that could have sent the Leafs to the finals), we haven't seen much legitimate excitement since then. Sure, the Leafs made a couple more semi-finals with Pat Quinn, but those were with significantly better teams, so much less of an achievement in my mind. But the NHL is not the same as it was in the 90s. Everyone is bigger and faster, and the team hasn't had a legitimate superstar on the team in the way that Chicago or Pittsburgh has had for quite some time. And when they have had a superstar, that guy never had much help from the rest of the team. I don't think they've been legitimate contenders for a long, long time. The best that they've ever been is a "threat" or "dark horse". While I've managed to "check out" on the Leafs for almost a decade now, I feel especially bad for longtime fans like my Dad, who year-in, year-out get set up with trumped up expectations for the Leafs only to be let down every single time. At least he witnessed them winning a cup before I was born though. And in two years, it's going to be half a century without a cup.
- deft 11y ago
  You must not talk to many leaf fans... They think they have a shot at the cup every single year. While I agree Mike Babcock is a great coach, he won't save them in 1 season. Typical Maple Leafs fan optimism. They never give up hope. Seems like every season MLSE finds a new way to break their fans' hearts. Perhaps they are all masochists.
  - slantyyz 11y ago
    I can't stand talking to most Leaf fans. I already hear enough of them whining all the time on the Fan (Toronto Sports Radio).
- pitt1980 11y ago
  is there a structural reason why they can't get the talent to win? or is it simply a poor management issue?
  - slantyyz 11y ago
    >> is there a structural reason why they can't get the talent to win? There used to be - the financial goals of the Ontario Pension Plan (who owned a huge chunk of the team) ran counter to blowing huge amounts of money every year to increase the chances of winning a cup. >> or is it simply a poor management issue? Now that the pension plan is out, I think you can probably attribute the current state to a lot of bad decision making and not having a good long term plan.
    - pitt1980 11y ago
      that's interesting, I wasn't familiar with the history of the Pension Plan's ownership of the team seems if the teams current woes are mostly due to poor managment, hiring the best (or at least best paid) coach is a pretty good start, especially considering that they apparently gave him an 8 year leash
    - peeters 11y ago
      Hmm, the OTPP owned the Leafs starting in 2003, and there has been a salary cap since 2005. Are you saying the Leafs weren't spending at the cap from 2005 onward? Or are you saying they should have been spending more money outside of player contracts?
      - slantyyz 11y ago
        I'm saying they should be spending like Steinbrenner every single year and even paying a luxury tax if necessary, because they're pretty much going to make it back. If you have a decent team, you're never going to get a Crosby or McDavid via the draft, so you have to at least have the semblance of trying to put a contender in place every year to be attractive to the best free agents. In my mind, attractiveness to free agents is a combination of performance and an explicit willingness to spend money to fix shortcomings. Babcock, Kessel and Phaneuf are not enough (in my opinion) to make the Leafs a legit contender. They need at least two more elite players (including a top 3 goalie) to make that happen. Can you imagine what would happen if the Leafs won a cup? The heads of the over 4 million people in the GTA would probably explode. And right after that, you'd have massive spending on merch, etc.
- baldfat 11y ago
  Okay so the Maple Leafs are the analog to the NBA New York Knicks! Yeah it is the worst to be a fan of a very popular team that sells out when you are just fighting for 50% win rate.
  - slantyyz 11y ago
    >> Okay so the Maple Leafs are the analog to the NBA New York Knicks! That is a really good analogy.
  - lotharbot 11y ago
    or the LA Clippers prior to Blake Griffin / Chris Paul. "This team is on its way up... no, wait, their cheap owner let all his promising young players go, and brought in only midlevel free agents yet again. Here comes a 27-win season!" These teams can do that because they have so many fans and such a big market that they can sell out even if they're terrible.
    - baldfat 11y ago
      No LA Clippers are not a the top Fan Based Team in the league.
peeters 11y ago
I don't think Shanahan nor Babcock expect to be in the playoffs next year. That's not a reasonable goal when you're one year into a complete rebuild.

by vaadu 11y ago

slickwilli 11y ago

As a Wings fan I am actually happy for you guys

slantyyz 11y ago

>> contending for the cup in the near future. You can't be serious about that, can you? They usually make an expensive PR move every few years when it looks like they run the risk of fans keeping their money in their wallets, but don't often follow up with results. Granted, Pat Burns got great results in 92/93 with a team full of scrubs when he took over the Leafs (don't get me started on that non-call on Gretzky in 92 that could have sent the Leafs to the finals), we haven't seen much legitimate excitement since then. Sure, the Leafs made a couple more semi-finals with Pat Quinn, but those were with significantly better teams, so much less of an achievement in my mind. But the NHL is not the same as it was in the 90s. Everyone is bigger and faster, and the team hasn't had a legitimate superstar on the team in the way that Chicago or Pittsburgh has had for quite some time. And when they have had a superstar, that guy never had much help from the rest of the team. I don't think they've been legitimate contenders for a long, long time. The best that they've ever been is a "threat" or "dark horse". While I've managed to "check out" on the Leafs for almost a decade now, I feel especially bad for longtime fans like my Dad, who year-in, year-out get set up with trumped up expectations for the Leafs only to be let down every single time. At least he witnessed them winning a cup before I was born though. And in two years, it's going to be half a century without a cup.

deft 11y ago
You must not talk to many leaf fans... They think they have a shot at the cup every single year. While I agree Mike Babcock is a great coach, he won't save them in 1 season. Typical Maple Leafs fan optimism. They never give up hope. Seems like every season MLSE finds a new way to break their fans' hearts. Perhaps they are all masochists.
- slantyyz 11y ago
  I can't stand talking to most Leaf fans. I already hear enough of them whining all the time on the Fan (Toronto Sports Radio).
pitt1980 11y ago
is there a structural reason why they can't get the talent to win? or is it simply a poor management issue?
- slantyyz 11y ago
  >> is there a structural reason why they can't get the talent to win? There used to be - the financial goals of the Ontario Pension Plan (who owned a huge chunk of the team) ran counter to blowing huge amounts of money every year to increase the chances of winning a cup. >> or is it simply a poor management issue? Now that the pension plan is out, I think you can probably attribute the current state to a lot of bad decision making and not having a good long term plan.
  - pitt1980 11y ago
    that's interesting, I wasn't familiar with the history of the Pension Plan's ownership of the team seems if the teams current woes are mostly due to poor managment, hiring the best (or at least best paid) coach is a pretty good start, especially considering that they apparently gave him an 8 year leash
  - peeters 11y ago
    Hmm, the OTPP owned the Leafs starting in 2003, and there has been a salary cap since 2005. Are you saying the Leafs weren't spending at the cap from 2005 onward? Or are you saying they should have been spending more money outside of player contracts?
    - slantyyz 11y ago
      I'm saying they should be spending like Steinbrenner every single year and even paying a luxury tax if necessary, because they're pretty much going to make it back. If you have a decent team, you're never going to get a Crosby or McDavid via the draft, so you have to at least have the semblance of trying to put a contender in place every year to be attractive to the best free agents. In my mind, attractiveness to free agents is a combination of performance and an explicit willingness to spend money to fix shortcomings. Babcock, Kessel and Phaneuf are not enough (in my opinion) to make the Leafs a legit contender. They need at least two more elite players (including a top 3 goalie) to make that happen. Can you imagine what would happen if the Leafs won a cup? The heads of the over 4 million people in the GTA would probably explode. And right after that, you'd have massive spending on merch, etc.
baldfat 11y ago
Okay so the Maple Leafs are the analog to the NBA New York Knicks! Yeah it is the worst to be a fan of a very popular team that sells out when you are just fighting for 50% win rate.
- slantyyz 11y ago
  >> Okay so the Maple Leafs are the analog to the NBA New York Knicks! That is a really good analogy.
- lotharbot 11y ago
  or the LA Clippers prior to Blake Griffin / Chris Paul. "This team is on its way up... no, wait, their cheap owner let all his promising young players go, and brought in only midlevel free agents yet again. Here comes a 27-win season!" These teams can do that because they have so many fans and such a big market that they can sell out even if they're terrible.
  - baldfat 11y ago
    No LA Clippers are not a the top Fan Based Team in the league.

peeters 11y ago

I don't think Shanahan nor Babcock expect to be in the playoffs next year. That's not a reasonable goal when you're one year into a complete rebuild.