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I've read HN almost every day for the last 7 years. In that seven years, I don't recall ever reading a post that said something particularly slanderous about Z
by ghshephard 11y ago
I've read HN almost every day for the last 7 years. In that seven years, I don't recall ever reading a post that said something particularly slanderous about Zed. I have seen post after post about his Learning XXX the hard way, and, in fact, I've even purchased at least one as a result.
The one thing different about HN is that if you even slightly start to get overly negative on a post, you are downvoted into oblivion, and nobody sees what you've written.
So I'm really confused, Zed is upset that things that are negative are written about him (and I can appreciate that, who wouldn't be upset when negative things are written about them) - but the one place he criticizes, happens to be the one place on the internet (that I'm familiar with), where slanderous, objectionable, heck, off tone comments are censored by the community.
Because that's what I love about HN - the community keeps the tone civil, reasonably polite, and holds commentators accountable for their contributions, to the point of hell banning anybody who does draw too much ire.
I think Zed's criticism is a little off base this time.
- ossreality 11y ago>The one thing different about HN is that if you even slightly start to get overly negative on a post, you are downvoted into oblivion, and nobody sees what you've written. Do you actually believe this?
- keithpeter 11y agoI bought a (paper, hardback) copy of Learn Python the Hard Way as a result of seeing a post about the book on this forum. Nice pedagogy, nice template, font a bit small but I have reading glasses.
- cookiecide 11y agoI thought his point was mostly about the credibility and influence carried by negative comments on HN - probably thanks to both its link to YC and the presence of highly regarded industry figures in the comments. So a negative comment on HN might have a more tangible effect on the man's professional life compared to a negative comment on, say, reddit. Disclaimer: I honestly don't know how bad things used to be. By the time I started visiting HN in earnest, dang et al. were in charge, so I'm assuming a fair bit of moderation takes place now.
- icebraining 11y agoWhile I can't speak for zedshaw, I think the problem with HN is that while it, as you say, shuns and bans anyone who speaks in an aggressive tone or who directly vituperates others, it also allows (and often supports, with upvotes) one to completely slander someone as long as they do it in a calm and reasonable tone. As an example, specifically regarding anonymous accounts and zedshaw: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9276436 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9276436
- SwellJoe 11y agoIf that is an example of the "slander" Zed speaks of, his response is way overboard. It has that "more hacker than thou" tone that I find annoying in anyone (and most annoying when I catch myself using it, which is often), but I can't imagine anyone would consider it slanderous. And, it is by a no-name account, which, I suspect, makes everyone somewhat less likely to pay it any mind. The idea that something like that constitutes a years-long campaign of defamation against Zed is worryingly like paranoia.
- icebraining 11y agoWell, it's an example I came up with, don't hold it against him :)
- SwellJoe 11y agoI spent a little time browsing Zed's comment history (after seeing his reply to the comment you linked). It does seem to be representative of the kind of comment Zed calls "slanderous", at least in the past year or so. Perhaps there's something else, or perhaps there are comments that Zed did not respond to, that are actually problematic in some way. But, what I see is a polite but somewhat negative review of one of Zed's books. If that is "slander", then I have slandered Steve Jobs so many times it's not funny.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- richmarr 11y agoThat all sounds great, but then why is he so upset? It's impossible to reconcile your picture with his. So either (a) he's imagining things, or (b) you're painting over the cracks or can't see them, or (c) the real truth is somewhere inbetween.
- scruple 11y agoI imagine that it was prompted by this post [1] which was on the front page a couple of hours ago. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9636605 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9636605
- ghshephard 11y agoI just clicked on that - here was what the top comment had to say about Zed: "Zed is known as one of the most prolific and capable software engineers around and I have heard his C code for Mongrel 2 server https://github.com/zedshaw/mongrel2 https://github.com/zedshaw/mongrel2 described as being amongst some of the best examples of C code to study, learn and understand (trying to find the link that said that). I hold his work in high regard."
- hueving 11y agoOr (d), he thinks one comment is representative of the entire HN community.
- icebraining 11y agouser: zedshaw created: 2224 days ago karma: 8960 Yes, I'm sure he thinks one comment is representative of the entire HN community.
- hueving 11y agoWell he's writing that way. Did you even read the post? He insults the entire HN community for stuff that most people can't even recall or find evidence of. Also, if you read the post it sounds like he's not a very active user. He is likely completely disconnected from how this community works.
- Grue3 11y agoDitto, I have read HN for many years and have never seen the post in question. In fact, this has prompted me to look it up. I love programmers drama!