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I think that this is a context of which country, era and industry you are in. If you are a general in the middle ages, or a wall street stock broker in the 50s,

I think that this is a context of which country, era and industry you are in. If you are a general in the middle ages, or a wall street stock broker in the 50s, or a gangster / mafia leader in the 30s, then being a Jerk is kind of a must have to move forward. If you are a software engineer at a SF startup, not so much. Why people try to find "global truths" when it's clear that right and wrong are very, very subjective. Being nice in highschool only works if you are the most attractive / popular person, (so does being a jerk). If you are not so attractive / smart / good in sports, then being a Jerk or being nice won't really help you... When you are an adult, being a jerk usually never pays, unless you are surrounded by jerks and you want to fit in. Also there is a difference between respecting people and liking people.

lucaspiller 11y ago
> ...being a Jerk is kind of a must have to move forward. If you are a software engineer at a SF startup, not so much At least in the companies I've worked at (outside SF), if you don't step up you will just be taken advantage of and put on the sidelines. Want to be lead on the new project coming up? Don't want your boss to expect you to work this weekend? Unless SF is full of hippies in charge, it's going to be exactly the same there.
- tluyben2 11y ago
  There is a difference between being a jerk and being assertive and self confident isn't there?
  - eranation 11y ago
    Exactly what I wanted to write. Huge difference and people don't seem to understand it.
gutnor 11y ago
> When you are an adult, being a jerk usually never pays, unless you are surrounded by jerks and you want to fit in. Definitively not the experience I have at working in large companies. It is a coincidence because I have had that very same discussion with colleagues last week and we collected the stories. In our experience being a jerk always pays off if you have higher aspiration than staying in your team (i.e. you want to be promoted or move to a different team) Our conclusion is that big companies don't fire somebody without bullet proof objective reasons and since most employees at all level are non confrontational, the jerk are never called on their bullshit. So you get the jerk accusing everybody of murder and nobody calling him on it, which is the end of any HR move to fire him. The other option is to move them around until they end up in the position where they are less toxic. So we all ended up with variation of stories like "The boss told us he knew the guy was a jerk, and not to worry about his attempt to sink the team: nobody is taking him seriously" that eventually conclude with the guy moving to be somebody else problem until he eventually get what he wanted ( promotion, raise, ... )
- dimino 11y ago
  As a guy who just recently raised hell, mostly got ignored for it, and is now moving teams, I hope what I did won't be remembered as "oh, that jerk was just trying to sink the team". I hope in your case you at least made very sure the "jerk" wasn't right.
l33tbro 11y ago
Did you finish the article? The article doesn't claim a "global truth", as you put it. Take the passage below, for example: > Yet in at least three situations, a touch of jerkiness can be helpful. The first is if your job, or some element of it, involves a series of onetime encounters in which reputational blowback has minimal effect. The second is in that evanescent moment after a group has formed but its hierarchy has not. (Think the first day of summer camp.) The third—not fully explored here, but worth mentioning—is when the group’s survival is in question, speed is essential, and a paralyzing existential doubt is in the air. It was when things got truly desperate at Apple, its market share having shrunk to 4 percent, that the board invited Steve Jobs to return (Jobs then ousted most of those who had invited him back).
erikb 11y ago
Wasn't the article stating that the results are related to the current business situation and not e.g. to a second world war scenario?

lucaspiller 11y ago

> ...being a Jerk is kind of a must have to move forward. If you are a software engineer at a SF startup, not so much At least in the companies I've worked at (outside SF), if you don't step up you will just be taken advantage of and put on the sidelines. Want to be lead on the new project coming up? Don't want your boss to expect you to work this weekend? Unless SF is full of hippies in charge, it's going to be exactly the same there.

tluyben2 11y ago
There is a difference between being a jerk and being assertive and self confident isn't there?
- eranation 11y ago
  Exactly what I wanted to write. Huge difference and people don't seem to understand it.

gutnor 11y ago

> When you are an adult, being a jerk usually never pays, unless you are surrounded by jerks and you want to fit in. Definitively not the experience I have at working in large companies. It is a coincidence because I have had that very same discussion with colleagues last week and we collected the stories. In our experience being a jerk always pays off if you have higher aspiration than staying in your team (i.e. you want to be promoted or move to a different team) Our conclusion is that big companies don't fire somebody without bullet proof objective reasons and since most employees at all level are non confrontational, the jerk are never called on their bullshit. So you get the jerk accusing everybody of murder and nobody calling him on it, which is the end of any HR move to fire him. The other option is to move them around until they end up in the position where they are less toxic. So we all ended up with variation of stories like "The boss told us he knew the guy was a jerk, and not to worry about his attempt to sink the team: nobody is taking him seriously" that eventually conclude with the guy moving to be somebody else problem until he eventually get what he wanted ( promotion, raise, ... )

dimino 11y ago
As a guy who just recently raised hell, mostly got ignored for it, and is now moving teams, I hope what I did won't be remembered as "oh, that jerk was just trying to sink the team". I hope in your case you at least made very sure the "jerk" wasn't right.

l33tbro 11y ago

Did you finish the article? The article doesn't claim a "global truth", as you put it. Take the passage below, for example: > Yet in at least three situations, a touch of jerkiness can be helpful. The first is if your job, or some element of it, involves a series of onetime encounters in which reputational blowback has minimal effect. The second is in that evanescent moment after a group has formed but its hierarchy has not. (Think the first day of summer camp.) The third—not fully explored here, but worth mentioning—is when the group’s survival is in question, speed is essential, and a paralyzing existential doubt is in the air. It was when things got truly desperate at Apple, its market share having shrunk to 4 percent, that the board invited Steve Jobs to return (Jobs then ousted most of those who had invited him back).

erikb 11y ago

Wasn't the article stating that the results are related to the current business situation and not e.g. to a second world war scenario?