5 ms·

Bitcoin was not designed for microtransactions. Whoever told you that was wrong.

davidgerard 11y ago
Red herring: Bitcoin was not particularly designed for any use case at all. The thing in the white paper is the cardboard-and-string proof of concept that something like Bitcoin could exist at all, and the white paper talks about improving the protocol in due course. Of course, nobody did. It is, however, true that microtransactions were heavily touted by Bitcoin advocates, until of course it became blindingly obvious that Bitcoin didn't scale.
- javert 11y ago
  Microtransactions don't need to go on the blockchain.
  - tveita 11y ago
    More to the point, they don't need to use Bitcoin at all.
    - brighton36 11y ago
      How would you transfer micropayments if not Bitcoin? I don't believe there are any other solutions that don't require an inordinate burden on all persons involved...
      - aliakhtar 11y ago
        Simply replace bitcoin with USD in ChangeTip, and set a minimum withdrawal amount, such as $1.
        ryanlol 11y ago
        Transferring USD (except in some fairly rare scenarios) is incredibly difficult and time consuming, much more so than bitcoins.
        aliakhtar 11y ago
        It isn't hard to PayPal someone $1. Paypal is free for up to a certain balance.
        ryanlol 11y ago
        By doing that you aren't transferring 1 USD, but you are transferring 1 paypal "usd". And having two parties create paypal accounts and go through all the necessary verification steps to actually do that is most definitely hard.
        aliakhtar 11y ago
        As opposed to creating changetip accounts, coinbase accounts, giving them your id and complete personal info, paying exchange fees, paying txn fees, installing bitcoin, waiting for confirmations, being exposed to volatility, etc.
        ryanlol 11y ago
        You're talking about using bitcoins to transfer USD. Bitcoin provides a good way to transfer bitcoins between people, USD doesn't have a similar mechanism.
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
        aliakhtar 11y ago
        Even for a bitcoin to bitcoin transfer, you need 1) a changetip account, 2) verifying it, 3) downloading bitcoin client + installing it, 4) understanding wallet security. Much less work than paypal accounts (which most people have at this point, anyway). Plus, bitcoin is not much use unless its converted to fiat.
  - davidgerard 11y ago
    Correction: they can't go on the blockchain, as it doesn't scale. Microtransactions were much-advocated by proponents as a Bitcoin use case for many years, until it became clear that wasn't feasible.
- hybridsole 11y ago
  Bitcoin can still allow for microtipping using something like ChangeTip. These third party services can handle millions of transactions and only needs the blockchain when a user loads/withdraws from their wallet. Likewise if there was a ubiquitous browser plugin to micropay bloggers for access to their articles and it was compatible with WP, Tumblr, etc, users could microtip to their hearts content and only need to reload once month via the blockchain.
  - dllthomas 11y ago
    That all sounds precisely as doable if you replace bitcoin with dollars.
  - davidgerard 11y ago
    This doesn't actually supply any reason to use Bitcoin over dollars. If you're dependent on a centralised third party, there's no reason for it not to be Paypal, etc.
tveita 11y ago
It's a frequently touted feature by Bitcoin supporters - e.g. the Winklewoss twins have focused a lot on micropayments in their pitch. I agree with you that they are wrong, though.
brighton36 11y ago
It does do micropayments fairly well via bonding. It wasn't designed for micropayments, but look into the hub and spoke payment channels for some fun reading on the matter

Red herring: Bitcoin was not particularly designed for any use case at all. The thing in the white paper is the cardboard-and-string proof of concept that something like Bitcoin could exist at all, and the white paper talks about improving the protocol in due course. Of course, nobody did. It is, however, true that microtransactions were heavily touted by Bitcoin advocates, until of course it became blindingly obvious that Bitcoin didn't scale.

javert 11y ago
Microtransactions don't need to go on the blockchain.
- tveita 11y ago
  More to the point, they don't need to use Bitcoin at all.
  - brighton36 11y ago
    How would you transfer micropayments if not Bitcoin? I don't believe there are any other solutions that don't require an inordinate burden on all persons involved...
    - aliakhtar 11y ago
      Simply replace bitcoin with USD in ChangeTip, and set a minimum withdrawal amount, such as $1.
      - ryanlol 11y ago
        Transferring USD (except in some fairly rare scenarios) is incredibly difficult and time consuming, much more so than bitcoins.
        aliakhtar 11y ago
        It isn't hard to PayPal someone $1. Paypal is free for up to a certain balance.
        ryanlol 11y ago
        By doing that you aren't transferring 1 USD, but you are transferring 1 paypal "usd". And having two parties create paypal accounts and go through all the necessary verification steps to actually do that is most definitely hard.
        aliakhtar 11y ago
        As opposed to creating changetip accounts, coinbase accounts, giving them your id and complete personal info, paying exchange fees, paying txn fees, installing bitcoin, waiting for confirmations, being exposed to volatility, etc.
        ryanlol 11y ago
        You're talking about using bitcoins to transfer USD. Bitcoin provides a good way to transfer bitcoins between people, USD doesn't have a similar mechanism.
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
        aliakhtar 11y ago
        Even for a bitcoin to bitcoin transfer, you need 1) a changetip account, 2) verifying it, 3) downloading bitcoin client + installing it, 4) understanding wallet security. Much less work than paypal accounts (which most people have at this point, anyway). Plus, bitcoin is not much use unless its converted to fiat.
- davidgerard 11y ago
  Correction: they can't go on the blockchain, as it doesn't scale. Microtransactions were much-advocated by proponents as a Bitcoin use case for many years, until it became clear that wasn't feasible.
hybridsole 11y ago
Bitcoin can still allow for microtipping using something like ChangeTip. These third party services can handle millions of transactions and only needs the blockchain when a user loads/withdraws from their wallet. Likewise if there was a ubiquitous browser plugin to micropay bloggers for access to their articles and it was compatible with WP, Tumblr, etc, users could microtip to their hearts content and only need to reload once month via the blockchain.
- dllthomas 11y ago
  That all sounds precisely as doable if you replace bitcoin with dollars.
- davidgerard 11y ago
  This doesn't actually supply any reason to use Bitcoin over dollars. If you're dependent on a centralised third party, there's no reason for it not to be Paypal, etc.

tveita 11y ago

It's a frequently touted feature by Bitcoin supporters - e.g. the Winklewoss twins have focused a lot on micropayments in their pitch. I agree with you that they are wrong, though.

brighton36 11y ago

It does do micropayments fairly well via bonding. It wasn't designed for micropayments, but look into the hub and spoke payment channels for some fun reading on the matter