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Right, American culture (or the lack of it) definitely represents a tradeoff. Strong culture has an effect of reducing anxieties; you know your place by partici

Right, American culture (or the lack of it) definitely represents a tradeoff. Strong culture has an effect of reducing anxieties; you know your place by participating. You probably won't do too well, but not too bad either. In contrast, American culture almost prides itself on not participating, and "forging your own path", non-conformity is the new conformity, etc. The results are that it will be easier to do thing like Steve Jobs or Bill Gates, but at the same time easier to miss the mark even more and shoot up schools (Not saying that is an exclusively American phenomenon though). I personally think the tradeoff is worth it. It's like being given a piano versus a "make music automatically!" iPad app. I will take the piano despite the much greater possibility of making mistakes, for the chance to make something that sounds much better. Although this weak culture leads to some other problems, like the not complaining when they see injustice. It's that it is more difficult to develop your instincts for dealing with injustive when you don't know the expectations and rituals of the group(s) in which you are participating.

WalterSear 11y ago
>In contrast, American culture almost prides itself on not participating, and "forging your own path", non-conformity is the new conformity, etc. IMHO, this is mostly a presentation of non-conformity. In my experience, having lived half my life in the US and half of it elsewhere, non-conformity is punished much more severely here than in western europe. You even get ostracized here for having a different concept of what non-conformity involves.
- TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
  The US has a very limited concept of individualism, which seems to overlap significantly with "success" defined purely in financial terms, or as some form of force projection - either charismatic and persuasive, seductive, violent, or all three. If you look at the US media, there's almost no coverage at all of other ethical systems and other forms of individuality. The closest thing to a break was the drop-out culture of the late 1960s. But even that burned itself out and turned into a business opportunity. It's so incredibly pervasive, it possibly seems like the only possible world view - even though it isn't.
  - WalterSear 11y ago
    The drop-out culture occurred because, for the first time in history, the adult children of the middle class were able to be supported by their boomer parents, for a time. I wonder if, and it is a long if, we are able to throw off the shackles of our financial masters, we might see a similar, only larger, cultural explosion.
pekk 11y ago
Americans have a culture. To say otherwise is just snobbish xenophobia.
- m_mueller 11y ago
  Speaking for GP: The problem with the word 'culture' is that it has an evaluating component (more culture = good), which I don't think is what GP meant. Maybe a better term would be "amount of hard rules in society", i.e. how many rules do you have to follow as a member to be accepted. In those terms, from personal experience, I'm pretty sure that Japan >> Western Europe > USA - correct me if you think otherwise. Edit: I recommend watching the making of "Aliens" [1]. Young American (J. Cameron) goes to England to direct a British film crew, experiences surprisingly big cultural clash and the whole project almost ends in chaos, even though everyone was working at a very high quality level. Edit2: Just to preempt here, yes I know Cameron is Canadian, but he clearly comes out of American movie making culture, so I took a shortcut there. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V--gH9ayR-o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V--gH9ayR-o

WalterSear 11y ago

>In contrast, American culture almost prides itself on not participating, and "forging your own path", non-conformity is the new conformity, etc. IMHO, this is mostly a presentation of non-conformity. In my experience, having lived half my life in the US and half of it elsewhere, non-conformity is punished much more severely here than in western europe. You even get ostracized here for having a different concept of what non-conformity involves.

TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
The US has a very limited concept of individualism, which seems to overlap significantly with "success" defined purely in financial terms, or as some form of force projection - either charismatic and persuasive, seductive, violent, or all three. If you look at the US media, there's almost no coverage at all of other ethical systems and other forms of individuality. The closest thing to a break was the drop-out culture of the late 1960s. But even that burned itself out and turned into a business opportunity. It's so incredibly pervasive, it possibly seems like the only possible world view - even though it isn't.
- WalterSear 11y ago
  The drop-out culture occurred because, for the first time in history, the adult children of the middle class were able to be supported by their boomer parents, for a time. I wonder if, and it is a long if, we are able to throw off the shackles of our financial masters, we might see a similar, only larger, cultural explosion.

pekk 11y ago

Americans have a culture. To say otherwise is just snobbish xenophobia.

m_mueller 11y ago
Speaking for GP: The problem with the word 'culture' is that it has an evaluating component (more culture = good), which I don't think is what GP meant. Maybe a better term would be "amount of hard rules in society", i.e. how many rules do you have to follow as a member to be accepted. In those terms, from personal experience, I'm pretty sure that Japan >> Western Europe > USA - correct me if you think otherwise. Edit: I recommend watching the making of "Aliens" [1]. Young American (J. Cameron) goes to England to direct a British film crew, experiences surprisingly big cultural clash and the whole project almost ends in chaos, even though everyone was working at a very high quality level. Edit2: Just to preempt here, yes I know Cameron is Canadian, but he clearly comes out of American movie making culture, so I took a shortcut there. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V--gH9ayR-o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V--gH9ayR-o