5 ms·

So you want revenge? Because one life it ruined (assuming irreparable crimes like rape or murder) you need to ruin another one? The goal of penal system should

So you want revenge? Because one life it ruined (assuming irreparable crimes like rape or murder) you need to ruin another one? The goal of penal system should not be punishment, but rather prevention of crime. Punishment is only one aspect of crime prevention. IMHO, imprisonment has two goals: 1. deterrence, to prevent _another_ person to commit the same crime in the future 2. get really dangerous people away from the general population (this would be rare) Every crime is a failure of society already. There is no place for revenge or intentionally bad treatment of offenders.

tomjen3 11y ago
>Every crime is a failure of society already. There is no place for revenge or intentionally bad treatment of offenders. That is, at the very best, an extremely simplified extreme opinion. Victims have every right to hate their offenders and a just society should do everything they can to help the victims, including punishing the offender. I don't get why this is an extreme pov but apparently it is.
- narrowingorbits 11y ago
  > Victims have every right to hate their offenders and a just society should do everything they can to help the victims... Yes, society should do everything it can to help the victims---to help the victims to heal. Society has no imperative to help the victims to hate.
  - tomjen3 11y ago
    Ah but healing requires pain be inflicted on your transgressor.
    - vidarh 11y ago
      I feel sad for you if that is genuinely how you feel.
- maxxxxx 11y ago
  At some point you have to think about whether hatred or revenge are productive ways to help victims. Maybe there are better ways.
- JesperRavn 11y ago
  Seem completely normal to me. However the people who post on articles about criminal justice on HN are not a random sample of the population. The law considers punishment to be a valid role of the justice system, even though punishment should only consist of denial of freedom, and not being raped or killed by fellow prisoners or guards.
MrBuddyCasino 11y ago
A Canadian ad executive, Paul Coffin, pleaded guilty to fifteen counts of defrauding the federal government of $1.5 million. For five years, he and his wife had lived the good life by double billing for his services and submitting bogus invoices for fictitious employees. During the investigation, he had been uncooperative and experienced many memory “lapses” about his criminal activities. He received a conditional sentence (no jail time). The judge accepted the man’s suggestion that instead of prison he should deliver a series of lectures on ethics to university students. The proposed topics of these heartfelt lectures are: “Never compromise your integrity, no matter what the perceived benefit.” “The only person who can rob you of your reputation, credibility, and good name is yourself.” This is an excerpt from a book about psychopaths. You could argue that their condition is due to an organic brain damage, but they are basically immune to rehabilitation and a danger to society. They are masters of deception and will cheat and lie in order to be released prematurely. I really hope the Scandinavians have thought of this.
- vidarh 11y ago
  > They are masters of deception and will cheat and lie in order to be released prematurely. I really hope the Scandinavians have thought of this. The low re-offending rates speaks for themselves: Most people who commit a crime do not re-offend if they're treated properly. Most of them are ordinary people that made a mistake, not psychopaths.
  - MrBuddyCasino 11y ago
    I don't doubt that, and I vastly prefer the scandinavian prison system over the US one. I simply meant to illustrate that there are cases where it might backfire.
    - qw 11y ago
      There are some cases probably, but if the total number of crimes go down it pays off in the end. The damage done to a victim is the same no matter who does the crime.

tomjen3 11y ago

>Every crime is a failure of society already. There is no place for revenge or intentionally bad treatment of offenders. That is, at the very best, an extremely simplified extreme opinion. Victims have every right to hate their offenders and a just society should do everything they can to help the victims, including punishing the offender. I don't get why this is an extreme pov but apparently it is.

narrowingorbits 11y ago
> Victims have every right to hate their offenders and a just society should do everything they can to help the victims... Yes, society should do everything it can to help the victims---to help the victims to heal. Society has no imperative to help the victims to hate.
- tomjen3 11y ago
  Ah but healing requires pain be inflicted on your transgressor.
  - vidarh 11y ago
    I feel sad for you if that is genuinely how you feel.
maxxxxx 11y ago
At some point you have to think about whether hatred or revenge are productive ways to help victims. Maybe there are better ways.
JesperRavn 11y ago
Seem completely normal to me. However the people who post on articles about criminal justice on HN are not a random sample of the population. The law considers punishment to be a valid role of the justice system, even though punishment should only consist of denial of freedom, and not being raped or killed by fellow prisoners or guards.

MrBuddyCasino 11y ago

A Canadian ad executive, Paul Coffin, pleaded guilty to fifteen counts of defrauding the federal government of $1.5 million. For five years, he and his wife had lived the good life by double billing for his services and submitting bogus invoices for fictitious employees. During the investigation, he had been uncooperative and experienced many memory “lapses” about his criminal activities. He received a conditional sentence (no jail time). The judge accepted the man’s suggestion that instead of prison he should deliver a series of lectures on ethics to university students. The proposed topics of these heartfelt lectures are: “Never compromise your integrity, no matter what the perceived benefit.” “The only person who can rob you of your reputation, credibility, and good name is yourself.” This is an excerpt from a book about psychopaths. You could argue that their condition is due to an organic brain damage, but they are basically immune to rehabilitation and a danger to society. They are masters of deception and will cheat and lie in order to be released prematurely. I really hope the Scandinavians have thought of this.

vidarh 11y ago
> They are masters of deception and will cheat and lie in order to be released prematurely. I really hope the Scandinavians have thought of this. The low re-offending rates speaks for themselves: Most people who commit a crime do not re-offend if they're treated properly. Most of them are ordinary people that made a mistake, not psychopaths.
- MrBuddyCasino 11y ago
  I don't doubt that, and I vastly prefer the scandinavian prison system over the US one. I simply meant to illustrate that there are cases where it might backfire.
  - qw 11y ago
    There are some cases probably, but if the total number of crimes go down it pays off in the end. The damage done to a victim is the same no matter who does the crime.