4 ms·

I'm not the op, but I believe he would be arguing that the basic microeconomic principle of Health Care being a public good dictates that this provision is a ma

I'm not the op, but I believe he would be arguing that the basic microeconomic principle of Health Care being a public good dictates that this provision is a market failure. As such, like transportation and armies and education, the service is best provided - on a micro level - in something other than a free market model. Certainly, data comparing US expenditures on health care to other countries supports this.

kiba 17y ago
"In economics, a public good is a good that is non-rivalrous and non-excludable." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_goods http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_goods I do not understand how medical goods can be considered public goods.(Or roads and security for that matters.) Are you forgetting to account for the various interventions that account for rise in medical cost? I believe I recall Medicare driven up demand, thus increasing cost due to people overusing Medicare. Insurance, instead of being used to cover emergency medical care, are now being used to cover medical visit and other regular expenses. We also have a medical cartel driving up costs by limiting the supply of doctors. Patent medicine is also adding to the cost too. Statistics are great and all, but we really should look into the unseen on why this is happening.
- run4yourlives 17y ago
  Defining a public good is a method of classification based on opinion, often having little to do with a natural state. Few things in this world are truly public goods. Hell, even air can be excluded with a little thought. I'm interpreting the OP to be suggesting that choosing to define health care as a public good has obvious benefits that outweigh the notion that it should be left to the free market. You are coming from an opposite view that clearly sees little benefit in drawing any lines past the natural norm. Given that there is basically no country on the planet that operates in this method - spare maybe Somalia - I am assuming that the true definition of a Public Good is not the intent.
  - cwan 17y ago
    There is a middle ground here. It is possible to provide universal healthcare without dismantling private markets under the guise of calling it a public good. The Swiss do it (and at a cost lower with better quality than the Canadian or American systems) - http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/01/health/policy/01swiss.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=Swiss%20Model%20for%20Health%20Care%20Thrives%20Without%20Public%20Option%20&st=cse http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/01/health/policy/01swiss.html.... What is increasingly clear however, is that there are a number of models like the Canadian one which are increasingly unsustainable and unwieldy.
    - run4yourlives 17y ago
      I don't disagree with any of that. Being Canadian myself, I know it's far from the idea model.
stcredzero 17y ago
this provision is a market failure. As such, like transportation and armies and education, the service is best provided - on a micro level - in something other than a free market model. Or, that the free market might possibly work well, but there is something else causing a market failure.
- run4yourlives 17y ago
  That doesn't make sense. Wiki definition: Market failures can be viewed as scenarios where individuals' pursuit of pure self-interest leads to results that are not efficient – that can be improved upon from the societal point-of-view. In other words, the free market is the failure.
  - stcredzero 17y ago
    I think this is all a problem with terminology. The market "doesn't work" or "isn't allowed to exist" in the first place?

kiba 17y ago

"In economics, a public good is a good that is non-rivalrous and non-excludable." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_goods http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_goods I do not understand how medical goods can be considered public goods.(Or roads and security for that matters.) Are you forgetting to account for the various interventions that account for rise in medical cost? I believe I recall Medicare driven up demand, thus increasing cost due to people overusing Medicare. Insurance, instead of being used to cover emergency medical care, are now being used to cover medical visit and other regular expenses. We also have a medical cartel driving up costs by limiting the supply of doctors. Patent medicine is also adding to the cost too. Statistics are great and all, but we really should look into the unseen on why this is happening.

run4yourlives 17y ago
Defining a public good is a method of classification based on opinion, often having little to do with a natural state. Few things in this world are truly public goods. Hell, even air can be excluded with a little thought. I'm interpreting the OP to be suggesting that choosing to define health care as a public good has obvious benefits that outweigh the notion that it should be left to the free market. You are coming from an opposite view that clearly sees little benefit in drawing any lines past the natural norm. Given that there is basically no country on the planet that operates in this method - spare maybe Somalia - I am assuming that the true definition of a Public Good is not the intent.
- cwan 17y ago
  There is a middle ground here. It is possible to provide universal healthcare without dismantling private markets under the guise of calling it a public good. The Swiss do it (and at a cost lower with better quality than the Canadian or American systems) - http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/01/health/policy/01swiss.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=Swiss%20Model%20for%20Health%20Care%20Thrives%20Without%20Public%20Option%20&st=cse http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/01/health/policy/01swiss.html.... What is increasingly clear however, is that there are a number of models like the Canadian one which are increasingly unsustainable and unwieldy.
  - run4yourlives 17y ago
    I don't disagree with any of that. Being Canadian myself, I know it's far from the idea model.

stcredzero 17y ago

this provision is a market failure. As such, like transportation and armies and education, the service is best provided - on a micro level - in something other than a free market model. Or, that the free market might possibly work well, but there is something else causing a market failure.

run4yourlives 17y ago
That doesn't make sense. Wiki definition: Market failures can be viewed as scenarios where individuals' pursuit of pure self-interest leads to results that are not efficient – that can be improved upon from the societal point-of-view. In other words, the free market is the failure.
- stcredzero 17y ago
  I think this is all a problem with terminology. The market "doesn't work" or "isn't allowed to exist" in the first place?