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That moment you read something and realize that someone is talking generically about a broad field (fantasy RPGs) and only has any experience with one or two ex

That moment you read something and realize that someone is talking generically about a broad field (fantasy RPGs) and only has any experience with one or two examples (probably D&D). A few other games to look into, for the curious: HeroQuest, Mage: the Ascension, Nobilis, and Sorcerer.

the_af 11y ago
Also, no mention in the article of the literary inspiration for AD&D's "gamey" magic: Jack Vance. I'm reading his Dying Earth's stories, and even though I'm no fan of AD&D, I find his magic system charming. Spells are something you collect and "equip" by reading and memorizing them, and a great wizard can memorize more spells than a regular person. Here is a paragraph from a short story ("Turjan of Miir"), with the protagonist choosing some amusingly named general purpose spells: "Turjan closed the book, forcing the spell back into oblivion. He robed himself with a short cape, tucked a blade into his belt, fitted the amulet holding Laccodel's Rune to his wrist. Then he sat down and from a journal chose the spells he would take with him. What dangers he might meet he could not know, so he selected three spells of general application: the Excellent Prismatic Spray, Phandaal's Mantle of Stealth, and the Spell of the Slow Hour."
- duskwuff 11y ago
  The first of which, incidentally, made its way into D&D (and thence into many other RPGs): http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticSpray.htm http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticSpray.htm
patio11 11y ago
Yep. Mage 2nd Edition was particularly good with regards to that while still supporting a dice-and-mechanics-heavy game around it. I've never played Nobilis seriously due to lack of friends to do it with, a major problem in an RPG, but it has some beautiful game design decisions. (Highly recommended for CS geeks, which I understand the author is. My single favorite thing is a table listing comparables for answering the question "The player wants to do something which is flatly impossible. How flatly impossible is it?" It's a game where if the action is only as impossible grabbing the moon between your thumb and finger and putting it in a velvet bag then you can certainly try to go for it.)
protomyth 11y ago
Ars Magica, Shadowrun, and Call of Cthulhu would be my picks to look at for magic different than D&D and its cohorts.
lizzard 11y ago
That is pretty clearly not the case here since the author published a lot of game system reviews, maintained a giant list of free RPGs, an encyclopedia of role playing games, and so on (if you look at the entire site, for example, the reviews here: http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/reviews/ http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/reviews/)
aetherson 11y ago
John Kim has very broad experience with roleplaying games, fantasy and otherwise. He certainly does not have a worldview comprised entirely or mostly of one or two RPGs, and definitely not just D&D. Source: I'm a personal friend; we play roleplaying games together fairly often; I go to one of the several cons that he goes to regularly; I have been discussing roleplaying games with him online on-and-off going back to rec.games.frp.advocacy in the mid-late 90's.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > John Kim has very broad experience with roleplaying games, fantasy and otherwise. The completely lack of concrete ties to specific systems makes it hard to tell, but the generalizations he makes seem to be, at best, only valid of games designed to operate in a simulation-oriented manner like D&D, rather ones designed to operate in a more narrative-oriented manner (FATE, among others.) > He certainly does not have a worldview comprised entirely or mostly of one or two RPGs If not, he certainly seems to have a narrowness of understanding on the particular subject similar to what you might have of issues in programming languages when you had an experience of more than one or two languages -- but they were all statically-typed OO languages with Algol-style syntax.
  - aetherson 11y ago
    Nope, sorry dude. You're just wrong in your inferences concerning the author's experiences. To my certain knowledge, John has played many games from the indie/narrativist/storygame branch of the rpg family tree. Now that that essay is dated 2006, so Fate and Apocalypse World had not risen to their current prominence. But the branch of roleplaying games precipitated by the Forge existed. Maybe you'd like to make your point without explaining what the author must have experienced?
    - Semiapies 11y ago
      "But the branch of roleplaying games precipitated by the Forge existed." And others. Every game I listed, for example. Given the author's apparent broader experience, I can't account for such a limited essay.

the_af 11y ago

Also, no mention in the article of the literary inspiration for AD&D's "gamey" magic: Jack Vance. I'm reading his Dying Earth's stories, and even though I'm no fan of AD&D, I find his magic system charming. Spells are something you collect and "equip" by reading and memorizing them, and a great wizard can memorize more spells than a regular person. Here is a paragraph from a short story ("Turjan of Miir"), with the protagonist choosing some amusingly named general purpose spells: "Turjan closed the book, forcing the spell back into oblivion. He robed himself with a short cape, tucked a blade into his belt, fitted the amulet holding Laccodel's Rune to his wrist. Then he sat down and from a journal chose the spells he would take with him. What dangers he might meet he could not know, so he selected three spells of general application: the Excellent Prismatic Spray, Phandaal's Mantle of Stealth, and the Spell of the Slow Hour."

duskwuff 11y ago
The first of which, incidentally, made its way into D&D (and thence into many other RPGs): http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticSpray.htm http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticSpray.htm

patio11 11y ago

Yep. Mage 2nd Edition was particularly good with regards to that while still supporting a dice-and-mechanics-heavy game around it. I've never played Nobilis seriously due to lack of friends to do it with, a major problem in an RPG, but it has some beautiful game design decisions. (Highly recommended for CS geeks, which I understand the author is. My single favorite thing is a table listing comparables for answering the question "The player wants to do something which is flatly impossible. How flatly impossible is it?" It's a game where if the action is only as impossible grabbing the moon between your thumb and finger and putting it in a velvet bag then you can certainly try to go for it.)

protomyth 11y ago

Ars Magica, Shadowrun, and Call of Cthulhu would be my picks to look at for magic different than D&D and its cohorts.

lizzard 11y ago

That is pretty clearly not the case here since the author published a lot of game system reviews, maintained a giant list of free RPGs, an encyclopedia of role playing games, and so on (if you look at the entire site, for example, the reviews here: http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/reviews/ http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/reviews/)

aetherson 11y ago

John Kim has very broad experience with roleplaying games, fantasy and otherwise. He certainly does not have a worldview comprised entirely or mostly of one or two RPGs, and definitely not just D&D. Source: I'm a personal friend; we play roleplaying games together fairly often; I go to one of the several cons that he goes to regularly; I have been discussing roleplaying games with him online on-and-off going back to rec.games.frp.advocacy in the mid-late 90's.

dragonwriter 11y ago
> John Kim has very broad experience with roleplaying games, fantasy and otherwise. The completely lack of concrete ties to specific systems makes it hard to tell, but the generalizations he makes seem to be, at best, only valid of games designed to operate in a simulation-oriented manner like D&D, rather ones designed to operate in a more narrative-oriented manner (FATE, among others.) > He certainly does not have a worldview comprised entirely or mostly of one or two RPGs If not, he certainly seems to have a narrowness of understanding on the particular subject similar to what you might have of issues in programming languages when you had an experience of more than one or two languages -- but they were all statically-typed OO languages with Algol-style syntax.
- aetherson 11y ago
  Nope, sorry dude. You're just wrong in your inferences concerning the author's experiences. To my certain knowledge, John has played many games from the indie/narrativist/storygame branch of the rpg family tree. Now that that essay is dated 2006, so Fate and Apocalypse World had not risen to their current prominence. But the branch of roleplaying games precipitated by the Forge existed. Maybe you'd like to make your point without explaining what the author must have experienced?
  - Semiapies 11y ago
    "But the branch of roleplaying games precipitated by the Forge existed." And others. Every game I listed, for example. Given the author's apparent broader experience, I can't account for such a limited essay.