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The nest thermostat is a completely different device from an utility smart meter. For example, I can see smart meters helping provide real time data to the uti

The nest thermostat is a completely different device from an utility smart meter. For example, I can see smart meters helping provide real time data to the utility about power usage. Utilities are engaged in an enormous task of forescating power demand, which is probably much harder than weather forecasting even (as that is a subtask of demand forecasting!) -- and can net huge savings for the companies; or allowing more fair pricing schemes that discourage usage in times of high demand; etc. That's a real benefit for society. I don't think there's a need to put a tin foil hat and demand that all personally identifiable information collection be ceased. We instead just have to make sure this info is getting used properly (within the designated scope) with according security for each problem. In other words: scrutiny, not celibacy.

frik 11y ago
> completely different device You can twist it how you like but it doesn't make a difference - it's a device that the PR suggests that it helps you save energy and costs. One device (Nest) lives up the dream and is great, the other (smart meters) is the opposite - but it could be a great device too if it would live up the original PR vision. > enormous task of forescating power demand Not really, the electrical power transformer stations that are physically located near your home already communicate about the power demand habits to the central power grid network. There is no technical reason to track every single house hold every 15min or every hour. > provide real time data to the utility Do you believe it's great that a washing machine is running during the night to save costs for the power company (and maybe you) but keeps you and your neighbors awake and you have to deal with wrinkled laundry in the morning? One can save energy at home, but the biggest power consumers at home are devices that are used at specific times - and that time cannot be deferred to the night - except one wants to be the slave of his own devices. On the other side a lot of energy could be saved in industrial production by optimizing processes. Next time one buys a device check the energy rating - but be smart and cautious as some very energy efficient rated devices like new electric kettles and vacuum cleaners consume less power by using less Watt which means physically it takes longer to boil the water or the vacuum cleaner is less efficient as the engine is less powerful and it takes longer to clean your home. Far better for the environment is to install photovoltaic panels near your home yourself. Especially then an electric car makes a lot of sense.
- IanCal 11y ago
  > it's a device that the PR suggests that it helps you save energy and costs. I think being able to see your usage broken down to more than one reading per quarter can definitely help. You can then change your behaviour and see the improvements very quickly. One product many of the companies hand out with smart meters is something that sits there and tells you how much you're using right now. I can easily see that making people realise just how much they're using while not realising it, and turning some things off. > but be smart and cautious as some very energy efficient rated devices like new electric kettles and vacuum cleaners consume less power by using less Watt which means physically it takes longer to boil the water or the vacuum cleaner is less efficient as the engine is less powerful and it takes longer to clean your home. While you do need to check, you can definitely get lower powered kettles and vacuums (particularly the latter) that are as good or better. The EU has come around to regulating vacuums because many were just putting uselessly big motors in that did nothing really helpful for actually cleaning, but used loads of energy since people see a higher power and think it's automatically a better vacuum.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
s_baby 11y ago
>I don't think there's a need to put a tin foil hat and demand that all personally identifiable information collection be ceased. We instead just have to make sure this info is getting used properly (within the designated scope) with according security for each problem Smart meters are a great example of what can go wrong. Before pot growers were busted based on how much energy they used. The new smart meters can pick up individual devices based on their usage patterns. It can tell how many lights you are running, what kind, when, etc... All of this information is already being analyzed and used to catch people.

frik 11y ago

> completely different device You can twist it how you like but it doesn't make a difference - it's a device that the PR suggests that it helps you save energy and costs. One device (Nest) lives up the dream and is great, the other (smart meters) is the opposite - but it could be a great device too if it would live up the original PR vision. > enormous task of forescating power demand Not really, the electrical power transformer stations that are physically located near your home already communicate about the power demand habits to the central power grid network. There is no technical reason to track every single house hold every 15min or every hour. > provide real time data to the utility Do you believe it's great that a washing machine is running during the night to save costs for the power company (and maybe you) but keeps you and your neighbors awake and you have to deal with wrinkled laundry in the morning? One can save energy at home, but the biggest power consumers at home are devices that are used at specific times - and that time cannot be deferred to the night - except one wants to be the slave of his own devices. On the other side a lot of energy could be saved in industrial production by optimizing processes. Next time one buys a device check the energy rating - but be smart and cautious as some very energy efficient rated devices like new electric kettles and vacuum cleaners consume less power by using less Watt which means physically it takes longer to boil the water or the vacuum cleaner is less efficient as the engine is less powerful and it takes longer to clean your home. Far better for the environment is to install photovoltaic panels near your home yourself. Especially then an electric car makes a lot of sense.

IanCal 11y ago
> it's a device that the PR suggests that it helps you save energy and costs. I think being able to see your usage broken down to more than one reading per quarter can definitely help. You can then change your behaviour and see the improvements very quickly. One product many of the companies hand out with smart meters is something that sits there and tells you how much you're using right now. I can easily see that making people realise just how much they're using while not realising it, and turning some things off. > but be smart and cautious as some very energy efficient rated devices like new electric kettles and vacuum cleaners consume less power by using less Watt which means physically it takes longer to boil the water or the vacuum cleaner is less efficient as the engine is less powerful and it takes longer to clean your home. While you do need to check, you can definitely get lower powered kettles and vacuums (particularly the latter) that are as good or better. The EU has come around to regulating vacuums because many were just putting uselessly big motors in that did nothing really helpful for actually cleaning, but used loads of energy since people see a higher power and think it's automatically a better vacuum.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

s_baby 11y ago

>I don't think there's a need to put a tin foil hat and demand that all personally identifiable information collection be ceased. We instead just have to make sure this info is getting used properly (within the designated scope) with according security for each problem Smart meters are a great example of what can go wrong. Before pot growers were busted based on how much energy they used. The new smart meters can pick up individual devices based on their usage patterns. It can tell how many lights you are running, what kind, when, etc... All of this information is already being analyzed and used to catch people.