4 ms·

It depends largely on how you define "capitalism" and "socialism". Defined such that the US is capitalist while Sweden is socialist (in 2009), the systems are

It depends largely on how you define "capitalism" and "socialism". Defined such that the US is capitalist while Sweden is socialist (in 2009), the systems are not very different in the first place -- at that point, you're discussing the details, not economic systems. To get a meaningful distinction, you have to move them to the extremes, but when you do that, someone will cry foul and say that's not what they mean by [capitalism|socialism].

KirinDave 17y ago
Trying to pin down exact concrete meanings is somewhat pointless in an economic policy discussion. They are conducted at such a high level that it's often difficult to get more than a few concrete examples in. But there are a surprisingly large number of people people, here on HackerNews even, who decry Sweden as a socialist country that is destined for failure. My observation is: when people talk about "Capitalism" they tend to talk about the more extreme aspect of it. When they talk about "Socialism", I've observed they tend to be talking about "our current form of government and onwards."
- gloob 17y ago
  My observation is: when people talk about "Capitalism" they tend to talk about the more extreme aspect of it. When they talk about "Socialism", I've observed they tend to be talking about "our current form of government and onwards." The thing that libertarians often forget is that libertarianism has never worked in the real world. (For a certain value of "worked", anyway. I'm mostly just playing off the same argument as applied to communism, though.)
  - kiba 17y ago
    So you're saying that the free market cannot calculate resource allocation at all? I am somewhat familiar with the argument that central planners cannot possibly perform economic calculation, but not the other way around.
    - KirinDave 17y ago
      Their ability in a given domain is limited by the average knowledge of that domain in the market. When that knowledge is high, the ability to intelligently allocate resources approaches optimal. When the domain is not well understood, it can be extremely sub-optimal.
- kiba 17y ago
  I assume capitalism is about free market, capital accumulation, private property, and not letting the state get involved in regulating the economy. Socialism, I assume intervention, equality among men no matter what, social welfare, and central planning. I also included fascism there, because fascism to me have only super fiscal difference on the surface and by large and the same in substance. It's all a matter of continuum from that point.

KirinDave 17y ago

Trying to pin down exact concrete meanings is somewhat pointless in an economic policy discussion. They are conducted at such a high level that it's often difficult to get more than a few concrete examples in. But there are a surprisingly large number of people people, here on HackerNews even, who decry Sweden as a socialist country that is destined for failure. My observation is: when people talk about "Capitalism" they tend to talk about the more extreme aspect of it. When they talk about "Socialism", I've observed they tend to be talking about "our current form of government and onwards."

gloob 17y ago
My observation is: when people talk about "Capitalism" they tend to talk about the more extreme aspect of it. When they talk about "Socialism", I've observed they tend to be talking about "our current form of government and onwards." The thing that libertarians often forget is that libertarianism has never worked in the real world. (For a certain value of "worked", anyway. I'm mostly just playing off the same argument as applied to communism, though.)
- kiba 17y ago
  So you're saying that the free market cannot calculate resource allocation at all? I am somewhat familiar with the argument that central planners cannot possibly perform economic calculation, but not the other way around.
  - KirinDave 17y ago
    Their ability in a given domain is limited by the average knowledge of that domain in the market. When that knowledge is high, the ability to intelligently allocate resources approaches optimal. When the domain is not well understood, it can be extremely sub-optimal.
kiba 17y ago
I assume capitalism is about free market, capital accumulation, private property, and not letting the state get involved in regulating the economy. Socialism, I assume intervention, equality among men no matter what, social welfare, and central planning. I also included fascism there, because fascism to me have only super fiscal difference on the surface and by large and the same in substance. It's all a matter of continuum from that point.