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I'm sorry, but your definition of socialism is entirely false. If anything that is the view of the liberal capitalist. That is, that some "official" can solve t

I'm sorry, but your definition of socialism is entirely false. If anything that is the view of the liberal capitalist. That is, that some "official" can solve the problems and redistribution by this leader and his government will solve the problems of the world. They are wrong in this thinking. Socialism means a change in the organization of production NOT the circulation of value. Its not the liberal idea of, well if we just had the right people deciding who to take from and who to give to it would be fine. It's the working class actually running society, which, like the ruling class does now, they would do for the benefit of the their class. And this is why it would ultimately feed everyone and house everyone and destroy racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. Those are products of the organization of production. Marxism is about democracy. Democracy in the workplace. Votes no longer being about how much money you have. And I don't mean that just in the sense of political influence but voting in the capitalist "supply and demand" sense. It is hard to have a 'demand' vote if you have no money. I'd lastly like to say that unlike a commune, in the sense of the Pilgrim commune, socialism does not mean if you are able to work and choose not to that you are fed. I'm a member of the revolutionary Marxist organization the International Socialist Organization. For more info on us check out our paper http://socialistworker.org/ http://socialistworker.org/ and our site http://www.internationalsocialist.org/what_we_stand_for.html http://www.internationalsocialist.org/what_we_stand_for.html

KirinDave 17y ago
For people who read this and didn't notice, the immediate conflation of Socialism and Marxism was a classic example of how radicals try and pollute a larger issue with their own specific dye. This is not a specific value judgement towards Marxism on my part, but rather a value judgement on the way that many Marxist groups try to insinuate themselves in every conversation. I saw them during the Proposition 8 rallies I attended as well, trying to argue that Marxism was the only way to get gay marriage approved. It's perfectly possible and reasonable to engage in socialism without engaging in Marxism. It's also possible to mix Socialism and Captialism in rational ways... the US currently does this with the medicine market and it provides a much more stable system for consumers to buy medicines that are proven to work (although this new health care bill contains provisions for the government paying for christian science mysticism, which is a terrible thing in my opinion).
- kiba 17y ago
  So I am conflating socialism and marxism? Are marxists trying to avoid the issue? Is it both? Is it a different issue altogether?
  - KirinDave 17y ago
    You are conflating all socialist policies with Marxism. I do not know what issue Marxists would be trying to avoid, as my personal experience suggests most Marxists will try and conflate every issue with their specific economic and social ideology. We're talking about policies that could be considered "socialist." No one is talking about a wholesale abolition of the free market system. At least, in this stage of the game.
randallsquared 17y ago
And this is why [the rule of the working class] would ultimately feed everyone and house everyone and destroy racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. Are you joking? The class (insofar as that term means anything in Western society anymore) you're referring to probably has the highest concentration of racism, homophobia, and sexism.
- kungfooguru 17y ago
  This is a large issue to address... But think about why those things exist at all? Racism in the working class during the United States' beginning, whether its against the Irish in the Northeast or the Blacks in the South, was beneficial to whom? The bosses. The same is true for homophobia and sexism. When the working class comes together to overthrow the ruling class the ONLY way this is possible is if they throw out these ridiculous ideas, otherwise they have no chance. Check out works by W.E.B. Du Bois, Theodore Allen's 'The Invention of the White Race', Sherry Wolf's 'Sexuality and Socialism', Sharon Smith's 'Women and Socialism', and many more...
kiba 17y ago
Anarcho-capitalists are anti-democractic, full fledge individualists. So of course, we are opposed to Marxist policies. Specifically, we would be opposed to any involuntary reorganization of ownership to the means of production. Anarcho-capitalists(at least some) do have a definition of social classes though. The parasite class are called "political class", or the "tax-consumption" class. It is exactly as they sound, it just means that use political means to obtain the goods of society. The one that are being oppressed are called "tax-producers", those who provided the net tax positive and actually the driver of prosperity in society.
kiba 17y ago
RE: Your socialist links. It would seem that our political interests appears to intersect at some point. Mainly, this is in the anti-racisim, pro-gay rights, anti-imperalism, anti-war, pro-immigration, pro-women right category. I placed them all as property right, or right from agression. I do support people's right to be racists, unsavory beliefs, and ideology different and in opposition to mine.
- kungfooguru 17y ago
  People have the right to believe anything they want. And only fools think that beliefs of any kind can be done away with through laws and force. The theory is about how these beliefs come to be, even religious beliefs and why they will disappear when class oppression does. "Communist" governments have used force and laws to oppress those of certain faiths, but that is not about oppressive control over the masses, like in China.

KirinDave 17y ago

For people who read this and didn't notice, the immediate conflation of Socialism and Marxism was a classic example of how radicals try and pollute a larger issue with their own specific dye. This is not a specific value judgement towards Marxism on my part, but rather a value judgement on the way that many Marxist groups try to insinuate themselves in every conversation. I saw them during the Proposition 8 rallies I attended as well, trying to argue that Marxism was the only way to get gay marriage approved. It's perfectly possible and reasonable to engage in socialism without engaging in Marxism. It's also possible to mix Socialism and Captialism in rational ways... the US currently does this with the medicine market and it provides a much more stable system for consumers to buy medicines that are proven to work (although this new health care bill contains provisions for the government paying for christian science mysticism, which is a terrible thing in my opinion).

kiba 17y ago
So I am conflating socialism and marxism? Are marxists trying to avoid the issue? Is it both? Is it a different issue altogether?
- KirinDave 17y ago
  You are conflating all socialist policies with Marxism. I do not know what issue Marxists would be trying to avoid, as my personal experience suggests most Marxists will try and conflate every issue with their specific economic and social ideology. We're talking about policies that could be considered "socialist." No one is talking about a wholesale abolition of the free market system. At least, in this stage of the game.

randallsquared 17y ago

And this is why [the rule of the working class] would ultimately feed everyone and house everyone and destroy racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. Are you joking? The class (insofar as that term means anything in Western society anymore) you're referring to probably has the highest concentration of racism, homophobia, and sexism.

kungfooguru 17y ago
This is a large issue to address... But think about why those things exist at all? Racism in the working class during the United States' beginning, whether its against the Irish in the Northeast or the Blacks in the South, was beneficial to whom? The bosses. The same is true for homophobia and sexism. When the working class comes together to overthrow the ruling class the ONLY way this is possible is if they throw out these ridiculous ideas, otherwise they have no chance. Check out works by W.E.B. Du Bois, Theodore Allen's 'The Invention of the White Race', Sherry Wolf's 'Sexuality and Socialism', Sharon Smith's 'Women and Socialism', and many more...

kiba 17y ago

Anarcho-capitalists are anti-democractic, full fledge individualists. So of course, we are opposed to Marxist policies. Specifically, we would be opposed to any involuntary reorganization of ownership to the means of production. Anarcho-capitalists(at least some) do have a definition of social classes though. The parasite class are called "political class", or the "tax-consumption" class. It is exactly as they sound, it just means that use political means to obtain the goods of society. The one that are being oppressed are called "tax-producers", those who provided the net tax positive and actually the driver of prosperity in society.

kiba 17y ago

RE: Your socialist links. It would seem that our political interests appears to intersect at some point. Mainly, this is in the anti-racisim, pro-gay rights, anti-imperalism, anti-war, pro-immigration, pro-women right category. I placed them all as property right, or right from agression. I do support people's right to be racists, unsavory beliefs, and ideology different and in opposition to mine.

kungfooguru 17y ago
People have the right to believe anything they want. And only fools think that beliefs of any kind can be done away with through laws and force. The theory is about how these beliefs come to be, even religious beliefs and why they will disappear when class oppression does. "Communist" governments have used force and laws to oppress those of certain faiths, but that is not about oppressive control over the masses, like in China.