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Wikipedia (and you) conflate two different things here: the origin of ramen the food as we know it today, which is quite arguably Japan (although admittedly it'
by jpatokal 11y ago
Wikipedia (and you) conflate two different things here: the origin of ramen the food as we know it today, which is quite arguably Japan (although admittedly it's a fuzzy line to draw); and the origin of ramen the name, which I agree is almost certainly from Chinese 拉麺. However, Japanese ramen doesn't taste at all like Chinese 拉麺, they've become entirely different dishes.
Also, you're spinning the name change as Japan somehow attempting to claim credit, while it's actually more the other way around: the term 支那 shina became pejorative, so they stopped using it. This also predates Japan exporting instant noodles to the world (c. 1971), much less the term "ramen" being adopted into English to mean them (1990s?).
- contingencies 11y agoYou're right there is an etymology question (the term ramen is clearly Chinese in etymological origin, the other names clearly refer to China) and the historical origin of noodles in Japan generally. I think given the etymological evidence of all terms (ramen and pre-ramen) combined with geographic proximity it would be exceptionally hard to argue that's not China as well. As far as putting words in to my mouth or motivations in to other people's brains when discussing history, please don't do that, it doesn't lead to constructive conversation.