5 ms·

When does this stop? When have people had enough of the secrecy, the continuous infantilization of the general population, both nationally and internationally?

When does this stop? When have people had enough of the secrecy, the continuous infantilization of the general population, both nationally and internationally? How little empathy and respect do our supposed representatives have for us? I feel powerless, the constant stream of such news and underhanded measures makes me sad beyond words. It's one despicable act after another, it just seems near-impossible to catch up, which from the looks of it is exactly what our "democratic" governments are trying to achieve, i.e. overwhelm and distract us. When governments get to unilaterally decide when, where and how democracy applies, they are no longer democracies, no longer legitimate representatives of the people, and therefore no longer our governments.

deciplex 11y ago
I think a big problem with modern western democracies is that legislation is totally decoupled from the effects its proponents claim it will produce before passing it. And, legislators have gotten really good at writing laws in such a way that you can suss out any intended effect you like, with enough wordplay. Combine that with an alliance between the national media and power brokers in government, and it's basically impossible to figure what the fuck anyone in government is actually trying to do, much less whether you should support it or not. So (proponents claim) the TPP and TISA and whatever else will give every signatory nation full employment for the next 35 years, and put a check on Chinese influence in Asia, and increase education standards, and progress culture at a rate of 11 Star Wars per month, and mow your lawn, and everyone will be farting through silk, etc etc. And so then we pass this shit sandwich, and none of that stuff happens, and then... ...well, tough luck! There needs to be a hard requirement, as in baked into our constitutions, that new legislation be explicitly coupled to effects. We should not rely on our own interpretation of the proposed policies to figure it out - since ultimately the courts will interpret the law, not us. Nor should we rely on the word of the people supporting the new legislation since they are clearly biased. Rather, every new law ought to make a falsifiable claim what effects it will cause and by when. And, legislators ought to show (again, in the law itself) a reasonable chain of causes and effects that they think will bring about the intended result (so, no banning drinking on Sunday so that the Sun rises on Monday, for example). Then, if the claimed result is not achieved by the deadline agreed on, the law is immediately and automatically repealed. No Supreme Court, no public referendum - it just disappears from the books. We will need institutions similar in size and scope to our current justice system, to ensure that chains of causality baked into laws are reasonable, and that the claims they make regarding their intended effects are falsifiable. So it is a huge undertaking, naturally. But it might be worth doing anyway.
- namlem 11y ago
  100% this. The desired outcome should be baked into every law passed, and all laws that don't achieve their desired result should be able to be invalidated by the lowest court fit to rule on them.
retrogradeorbit 11y ago
> When does this stop? When the roll out of the prison-planet is complete. When bitcoin, gold and cash are all illegal. When everyone is chipped and can't buy or sell without their chip activated. And when if you misbehave, your chip is deactivated, and you are a non-citizen who can no longer work or buy food. At this point dissent disappears, and the New World Order is complete. Either that, or when World War 3 is in full effect. Whichever comes first. The thing to understand is none of this is new. This concious process by a transnational elite to do away with sovereignty has been going on for at least a hundred years. What was surprising was the emergence of this global computer network where things that leak can be discovered by the masses. What's different now is you are finding out that these secrets exits. Before the Internet, the secrets stayed secret. Give "Tragedy and Hope" by Carroll Quigley a read. None of this is new. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carroll_Quigley http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carroll_Quigley http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_and_Hope http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_and_Hope
digi_owl 11y ago
> which from the looks of it is exactly what our "democratic" governments are trying to achieve, i.e. overwhelm and distract us. Pretty much. After the Freud and later uncorked the psychology genie, the general political attitude has shifted from the masses as intelligent to the masses as a overly emotional mess that can't be reasoned with. On top of that you have the whole shift from a needs to a wants economy, complete with mass manipulation of those wants via more and more subtle advertisement. Politics has gotten to be very paternalistic.
cryoshon 11y ago
It stops when we organize by the millions and agree to withhold our labor and money from the political and economic system until we get a government that actually represents our desires. The internet will be the core technology for accomplishing this goal. We are in an era of mass propaganda, mass surveillance, and mass obfuscation, but beautifully, the internet is the wildest tool for mass education and mass awakening that has ever been. That's why they're trying to shut it down-- they are scared, because the internet is an existential threat to centralized knowledge and centralized power. I agree that the "democratic" government is the enemy of those who fashion themselves as free. Lately, it has seemed like there is an endless parade of bad proposals, but take heart-- many of them have been exposed and defeated by popular resistance.

deciplex 11y ago

I think a big problem with modern western democracies is that legislation is totally decoupled from the effects its proponents claim it will produce before passing it. And, legislators have gotten really good at writing laws in such a way that you can suss out any intended effect you like, with enough wordplay. Combine that with an alliance between the national media and power brokers in government, and it's basically impossible to figure what the fuck anyone in government is actually trying to do, much less whether you should support it or not. So (proponents claim) the TPP and TISA and whatever else will give every signatory nation full employment for the next 35 years, and put a check on Chinese influence in Asia, and increase education standards, and progress culture at a rate of 11 Star Wars per month, and mow your lawn, and everyone will be farting through silk, etc etc. And so then we pass this shit sandwich, and none of that stuff happens, and then... ...well, tough luck! There needs to be a hard requirement, as in baked into our constitutions, that new legislation be explicitly coupled to effects. We should not rely on our own interpretation of the proposed policies to figure it out - since ultimately the courts will interpret the law, not us. Nor should we rely on the word of the people supporting the new legislation since they are clearly biased. Rather, every new law ought to make a falsifiable claim what effects it will cause and by when. And, legislators ought to show (again, in the law itself) a reasonable chain of causes and effects that they think will bring about the intended result (so, no banning drinking on Sunday so that the Sun rises on Monday, for example). Then, if the claimed result is not achieved by the deadline agreed on, the law is immediately and automatically repealed. No Supreme Court, no public referendum - it just disappears from the books. We will need institutions similar in size and scope to our current justice system, to ensure that chains of causality baked into laws are reasonable, and that the claims they make regarding their intended effects are falsifiable. So it is a huge undertaking, naturally. But it might be worth doing anyway.

namlem 11y ago
100% this. The desired outcome should be baked into every law passed, and all laws that don't achieve their desired result should be able to be invalidated by the lowest court fit to rule on them.

retrogradeorbit 11y ago

> When does this stop? When the roll out of the prison-planet is complete. When bitcoin, gold and cash are all illegal. When everyone is chipped and can't buy or sell without their chip activated. And when if you misbehave, your chip is deactivated, and you are a non-citizen who can no longer work or buy food. At this point dissent disappears, and the New World Order is complete. Either that, or when World War 3 is in full effect. Whichever comes first. The thing to understand is none of this is new. This concious process by a transnational elite to do away with sovereignty has been going on for at least a hundred years. What was surprising was the emergence of this global computer network where things that leak can be discovered by the masses. What's different now is you are finding out that these secrets exits. Before the Internet, the secrets stayed secret. Give "Tragedy and Hope" by Carroll Quigley a read. None of this is new. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carroll_Quigley http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carroll_Quigley http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_and_Hope http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_and_Hope

digi_owl 11y ago

> which from the looks of it is exactly what our "democratic" governments are trying to achieve, i.e. overwhelm and distract us. Pretty much. After the Freud and later uncorked the psychology genie, the general political attitude has shifted from the masses as intelligent to the masses as a overly emotional mess that can't be reasoned with. On top of that you have the whole shift from a needs to a wants economy, complete with mass manipulation of those wants via more and more subtle advertisement. Politics has gotten to be very paternalistic.

cryoshon 11y ago

It stops when we organize by the millions and agree to withhold our labor and money from the political and economic system until we get a government that actually represents our desires. The internet will be the core technology for accomplishing this goal. We are in an era of mass propaganda, mass surveillance, and mass obfuscation, but beautifully, the internet is the wildest tool for mass education and mass awakening that has ever been. That's why they're trying to shut it down-- they are scared, because the internet is an existential threat to centralized knowledge and centralized power. I agree that the "democratic" government is the enemy of those who fashion themselves as free. Lately, it has seemed like there is an endless parade of bad proposals, but take heart-- many of them have been exposed and defeated by popular resistance.