2 ms·

The main point I was trying to make (and that you seem to confirm) is that the circumstances of what is happening matters. Also doesn't the reasonable suspicio

by netfire 11y ago

The main point I was trying to make (and that you seem to confirm) is that the circumstances of what is happening matters. Also doesn't the reasonable suspicion have to be specific to the length of detention or the breadth of the search? Being stopped by police so they can verify your appearance, see if there is any obvious evidence of involvement (such as blood) or ask any nearby witnesses if they saw you committing a crime should require, in my thinking a lower threshold of suspicion than if they are handcuffing, arresting, detaining and bringing you into a police station for a lineup. (Just in the same way that doing a search for drugs in someone's car doesn't mean that the police can also search that person's house). As for the person holding the knife and being shot. I am of the opinion that the person should be posing a clear threat to police to justify such excessive force. The police should avoid escalating the situation and should take a defensive stance, if at all possible, to see if the situation can be handled with less force. I don't think the waiter/cop is a good comparison. You might have a better comparison with a personal body guard, but I don't see someone serving you food and someone who puts themselves in harms way for your safety at the same level, even if they are both being paid for it. For me, trust is better established and progress happens when both parties try to work together and move forward in good faith. I don't think a "I won't respect you until you respect me" attitude will get us anywhere.

logfromblammo 11y ago
The police are not putting themselves in harms way for me [0], they do quite a lot of things I find to be objectionable in the name of "officer safety". Police-related occupations are the 15th most deadly jobs in the US, at about 0.0001 workplace injury deaths/worker-year. They face .000035 homicides/worker-year, about double the rate of restaurant managers, retail supervisors, and cashiers, and half that of cabbies and chauffeurs. The majority of police deaths are, in fact, traffic accidents, as befits an occupation that spends a large amount of time driving (especially with such a miniscule chance of actually getting any moving violations). So I think it safe to assume that if the cop worked in an open-to-the-public building all day rather than a car, the occupational risk of death for him would be only slightly higher than the waiter. But the waiter is paid $5 per hour from voluntary customers, and the cop may get over $100k/year (including overtime) out of taxes, whether you like it or not. The burden is 100% upon police departments to monitor public opinion and adjust their behavior accordingly. They are the employees. The public is the employer. When they do not respect their employers, that is insubordination, not just discourtesy. I'm not going to give anyone a trophy just for doing their job correctly. But I will surely react when they do it incorrectly. Respecting the public is part of the job description. So yes, definitely, they have to show that respect first, and also take it stoically whenever people give them the finger and oink at them. If you cannot remain calm and professional in the face of insults, you are not well suited for police work. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_of_Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_of_Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales

by netfire 11y ago

logfromblammo 11y ago

The police are not putting themselves in harms way for me [0], they do quite a lot of things I find to be objectionable in the name of "officer safety". Police-related occupations are the 15th most deadly jobs in the US, at about 0.0001 workplace injury deaths/worker-year. They face .000035 homicides/worker-year, about double the rate of restaurant managers, retail supervisors, and cashiers, and half that of cabbies and chauffeurs. The majority of police deaths are, in fact, traffic accidents, as befits an occupation that spends a large amount of time driving (especially with such a miniscule chance of actually getting any moving violations). So I think it safe to assume that if the cop worked in an open-to-the-public building all day rather than a car, the occupational risk of death for him would be only slightly higher than the waiter. But the waiter is paid $5 per hour from voluntary customers, and the cop may get over $100k/year (including overtime) out of taxes, whether you like it or not. The burden is 100% upon police departments to monitor public opinion and adjust their behavior accordingly. They are the employees. The public is the employer. When they do not respect their employers, that is insubordination, not just discourtesy. I'm not going to give anyone a trophy just for doing their job correctly. But I will surely react when they do it incorrectly. Respecting the public is part of the job description. So yes, definitely, they have to show that respect first, and also take it stoically whenever people give them the finger and oink at them. If you cannot remain calm and professional in the face of insults, you are not well suited for police work. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_of_Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_of_Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales