6 ms·

so, um, as someone who has considered entering into a bootcamp program, I have a question: Why are there so expensive? (10k is more than what I am paying for m

by ldd 11y ago

so, um, as someone who has considered entering into a bootcamp program, I have a question: Why are there so expensive? (10k is more than what I am paying for my BSc degree at McGill)

germs12 11y ago
In my experience they're operating like for-profit colleges. They charge so much because they can. People want to believe that they can sign up for a course and leave a new person. The reality is that you have to put in the hard work to be good enough to hold your own at development shop. So those that are hirable after doing a bootcamp are mostly likely the ones that would have been successful developers if they had just stayed at home and studied. Those that are less than desirable hires make up the majority of the students. Bootcamps are cash cows.
rhia 11y ago
What you must not forget is the fact that a bootcamp only costs you 8-12 weeks in full-time salary on top of the 10k, whereas a BSc costs you 3-4 years of full time salary. I don't think that all that many people would do highschool-bootcamp. Most people have a BSc and at least a semi technical background. For them a second BSc is not really an options because it would take them out of the loop for too long.
aczerepinski 11y ago
Think through the business model. $10k * x cohorts per year * y students per cohort doesn't add up to a whole lot of revenue. How many salaries does that need to support? What do rent, insurance, advertising, employee benefits, etc cost? What could the founder (presumably a talented senior developer) earn by working as an employee and not running a bootcamp? The original question seems to suggest that students who take this path are more alike than different. There is surely a wide spectrum of graduates from the brightest student at the most selective bootcamp to the least engaged student at a poorly run school. I don't think you can generalize any more than you can for cs graduates.
woah 11y ago
McGill is subsidized right?
- ldd 11y ago
  It is subsidized in the sense that local (Quebec students) pay less than Canadian students and significantly less than international students.
- frandroid 11y ago
  Yes.
3pt14159 11y ago
Canada genearlly has 3 to 1 subsidies for studies. For my program (Engineering at Waterloo) It cost me $12k per "year" (per two semesters) all in (books, coop fees, tuition, endowment fund, lab fees) and it cost the government about $30k over the same period. Which means the overall cost of my degree was around $170k. I was also able to claim back the taxes on a portion of what I paid, so the total cost is slightly higher. Looked at from this lens, $10k isn't much for a program that will give you skills to earn about the same salary after a year of work that a physical sciences engineer can attain.
- osipovas 11y ago
  It should also be noted that Ontario has the highest tuition rates in Canada. Also, Waterloo is typically viewed as the most prestigious Engineering school in Canada (the Stanford of Canada). http://www.macleans.ca/interactive-how-canadian-tuition-fees-have-changed-in-the-last-5-years-by-province/ http://www.macleans.ca/interactive-how-canadian-tuition-fees...
austenallred 11y ago
There are full time bootcamps in Utah that include housing that are 9k. 12 weeks.

by ldd 11y ago

so, um, as someone who has considered entering into a bootcamp program, I have a question: Why are there so expensive? (10k is more than what I am paying for my BSc degree at McGill)

germs12 11y ago

In my experience they're operating like for-profit colleges. They charge so much because they can. People want to believe that they can sign up for a course and leave a new person. The reality is that you have to put in the hard work to be good enough to hold your own at development shop. So those that are hirable after doing a bootcamp are mostly likely the ones that would have been successful developers if they had just stayed at home and studied. Those that are less than desirable hires make up the majority of the students. Bootcamps are cash cows.

rhia 11y ago

What you must not forget is the fact that a bootcamp only costs you 8-12 weeks in full-time salary on top of the 10k, whereas a BSc costs you 3-4 years of full time salary. I don't think that all that many people would do highschool-bootcamp. Most people have a BSc and at least a semi technical background. For them a second BSc is not really an options because it would take them out of the loop for too long.

aczerepinski 11y ago

Think through the business model. $10k * x cohorts per year * y students per cohort doesn't add up to a whole lot of revenue. How many salaries does that need to support? What do rent, insurance, advertising, employee benefits, etc cost? What could the founder (presumably a talented senior developer) earn by working as an employee and not running a bootcamp? The original question seems to suggest that students who take this path are more alike than different. There is surely a wide spectrum of graduates from the brightest student at the most selective bootcamp to the least engaged student at a poorly run school. I don't think you can generalize any more than you can for cs graduates.

woah 11y ago

McGill is subsidized right?

ldd 11y ago
It is subsidized in the sense that local (Quebec students) pay less than Canadian students and significantly less than international students.
frandroid 11y ago
Yes.

3pt14159 11y ago

Canada genearlly has 3 to 1 subsidies for studies. For my program (Engineering at Waterloo) It cost me $12k per "year" (per two semesters) all in (books, coop fees, tuition, endowment fund, lab fees) and it cost the government about $30k over the same period. Which means the overall cost of my degree was around $170k. I was also able to claim back the taxes on a portion of what I paid, so the total cost is slightly higher. Looked at from this lens, $10k isn't much for a program that will give you skills to earn about the same salary after a year of work that a physical sciences engineer can attain.

osipovas 11y ago
It should also be noted that Ontario has the highest tuition rates in Canada. Also, Waterloo is typically viewed as the most prestigious Engineering school in Canada (the Stanford of Canada). http://www.macleans.ca/interactive-how-canadian-tuition-fees-have-changed-in-the-last-5-years-by-province/ http://www.macleans.ca/interactive-how-canadian-tuition-fees...

austenallred 11y ago

There are full time bootcamps in Utah that include housing that are 9k. 12 weeks.