5 ms·

Currently the government is spending via inflation far more than it takes in from taxes. So, if you want to add $3.6Trillion to the budget-- more than doubling

by MCRed 11y ago

Currently the government is spending via inflation far more than it takes in from taxes. So, if you want to add $3.6Trillion to the budget-- more than doubling it-- in order to give everyone in the USA $12k a year, it's going to have to come from somewhere.... and I don't think you can get that much by raising taxes. Since income from taxes is around $1.4T [1] you're talking about more than tripling those taxes. For many people who are on a lower income that alone will wipe out much of the improvement from basic income. And for people who have a lot more money, tripling income taxes will produce all kinds of consequences that lead to reduced tax income. (Laffer curve and all that.) For instance, I would simply move to another country, form a corporation there, and earn all my income thru that corporation. And I'm not even rich, but I'm currently giving up %20 of my income-- you start taking %60 and I consider that slavery. So, whether you intend to or not, you're talking about inflation... because you can't pass something like that size of a tax increase. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#/media/File:U.S._Federal_Receipts_-_FY_2007.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#/... Edit- I see you edited. Yes, food stamps have driven up the price of food, this is one of the things that's making it hard for people to make ends meet-- food is too expensive, and even for poor people their taxes are too high, not just income but all the built in taxes that show up in the price of food, etc, because the companies have to pay taxes, they have to pay their employees more so their employees can pay taxes, etc. Raising taxes raises prices too, because it raises costs for everybody. Price increases come from many factors, including supply vs demand, but also cost of production. And all income and corporate taxes, as well as burdensome regulations, increase the cost of production.

learc83 11y ago
>For many people who are on a lower income that alone will wipe out much of the improvement from basic income. Every argument I've ever seen for a basic income calls for a tax curve so that you pay zero taxes and get $12k a year if you make no income. Then you pay more the higher you go up to a break even point somewhere around the median income of $55k. > So, if you want to add $3.6Trillion to the budget Again it's not going to be anywhere near that. Because of the tax curve, less than half of the country will get any extra money, and only a fairly small fraction would get the whole amount. Then you have to take into consideration the programs it will replace--social security is almost a trillion a year by itself. Food stamps, cash aid, housing assistance and other programs to help the poor (not including medicaid) are another $500 billion. All of those programs would unnecessary. You're not going to need to do anything close to tripling taxes. >For instance, I would simply move to another country, form a corporation there, and earn all my income thru that corporation. Again this won't triple your income tax. But ignoring that, what you're suggesting is not an option most people have. Also you can only exclude about $100k or so in foreign earned income, and if you want to renounce your citizenship, you have to pay the exit tax. >Laffer curve and all that. Yes, but you can find studies that put the optimal taxation rate anywhere from 35% all the way up to 75%. > Yes, food stamps have driven up the price of food You're argument wasn't that a basic income would drive up the cost of food, but that it would drive up the cost to the point that it would wipe out the effect of the basic income. If that logic was true, that giving cash payments to lower income people would drive up prices to the point that it had no net effect, then food stamps should have done the same--they have demonstrably not done so.

by MCRed 11y ago

learc83 11y ago

>For many people who are on a lower income that alone will wipe out much of the improvement from basic income. Every argument I've ever seen for a basic income calls for a tax curve so that you pay zero taxes and get $12k a year if you make no income. Then you pay more the higher you go up to a break even point somewhere around the median income of $55k. > So, if you want to add $3.6Trillion to the budget Again it's not going to be anywhere near that. Because of the tax curve, less than half of the country will get any extra money, and only a fairly small fraction would get the whole amount. Then you have to take into consideration the programs it will replace--social security is almost a trillion a year by itself. Food stamps, cash aid, housing assistance and other programs to help the poor (not including medicaid) are another $500 billion. All of those programs would unnecessary. You're not going to need to do anything close to tripling taxes. >For instance, I would simply move to another country, form a corporation there, and earn all my income thru that corporation. Again this won't triple your income tax. But ignoring that, what you're suggesting is not an option most people have. Also you can only exclude about $100k or so in foreign earned income, and if you want to renounce your citizenship, you have to pay the exit tax. >Laffer curve and all that. Yes, but you can find studies that put the optimal taxation rate anywhere from 35% all the way up to 75%. > Yes, food stamps have driven up the price of food You're argument wasn't that a basic income would drive up the cost of food, but that it would drive up the cost to the point that it would wipe out the effect of the basic income. If that logic was true, that giving cash payments to lower income people would drive up prices to the point that it had no net effect, then food stamps should have done the same--they have demonstrably not done so.