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I felt that in my CS degree program I didn't really learn a lot that set me up to be a professional software developer either. It made me do some coding and lea

by ajkjk 11y ago

I felt that in my CS degree program I didn't really learn a lot that set me up to be a professional software developer either. It made me do some coding and learn some algorithms, and gave very basic familiarity with how computers work, but that's about it. The coding projects were, in hindsight, pretty pathetic compared to what I can do now. I wish the program had forced us (or tricked us) into becoming more mature programmers, just by doing a lot of coding and holding our code to higher standards. Come graduation, the best engineers had gotten the experience to mature in this way entirely outside of our classes. I didn't get that at all so I was very behind. I don't see a reason one couldn't learn the useful skills in 12 weeks. Except, possibly, for the sorts of mathematical intuition that you get from studying CS theory.

danpalmer 11y ago
I would agree with many of your points about CS degrees, I certainly got most of my experience from internships outside of the course. However. I think I got a huge amount of intuition on a wide range of engineering problems from my degree. I did modules on compilers, real time systems, operating systems, control systems, security, genetic algorithms, databases, web services, and many more, and while the depth on each of those topics was not great, I feel that if presented with any of those problems now I would have a very solid starting point, and more importantly, when looking at problems in my day job, I have a far broader set of experience that I can draw from, which helps me make much more informed decisions. I don't think it's the mathematical intuition, I think it's the engineering intuition.
S4M 11y ago
I guess the best students of your program managed to find something they liked a lot (like machine learning, compilers, embedded, etc.) and got specialized in it, while the majority of the students just followed along somewhat passively - I don't mean to be condescending, it's sort of to what happened to me as well, and still now I regret not to have taken more time to think of what I wanted to do and pick my courses more carefully.
- ajkjk 11y ago
  Yeah, I think that's common. A lot of people also worked on coding projects outside classes - people came in with experience setting up LAMP stacks, that sort of thing. Others ran the school newspaper's website or played around with startup ideas. But there's not a class where you learn Linux + shell commands and basic sysadmin-y things, and for those of us who didn't really know what we liked and just followed along through the coursework, it was easy to pretty much not learn any of that useful stuff.. ever. Not before graduation at least.
pjc50 11y ago
It's a strange dichotomy. Programming in the real world has its theoretical side, its "craftsmanship" side, and its soft skills. It's entirely possible to get through a CS degree without learning craftsmanship, which is more amenable to a traditional apprenticeship structure.

by ajkjk 11y ago

danpalmer 11y ago

I would agree with many of your points about CS degrees, I certainly got most of my experience from internships outside of the course. However. I think I got a huge amount of intuition on a wide range of engineering problems from my degree. I did modules on compilers, real time systems, operating systems, control systems, security, genetic algorithms, databases, web services, and many more, and while the depth on each of those topics was not great, I feel that if presented with any of those problems now I would have a very solid starting point, and more importantly, when looking at problems in my day job, I have a far broader set of experience that I can draw from, which helps me make much more informed decisions. I don't think it's the mathematical intuition, I think it's the engineering intuition.

S4M 11y ago

I guess the best students of your program managed to find something they liked a lot (like machine learning, compilers, embedded, etc.) and got specialized in it, while the majority of the students just followed along somewhat passively - I don't mean to be condescending, it's sort of to what happened to me as well, and still now I regret not to have taken more time to think of what I wanted to do and pick my courses more carefully.

ajkjk 11y ago
Yeah, I think that's common. A lot of people also worked on coding projects outside classes - people came in with experience setting up LAMP stacks, that sort of thing. Others ran the school newspaper's website or played around with startup ideas. But there's not a class where you learn Linux + shell commands and basic sysadmin-y things, and for those of us who didn't really know what we liked and just followed along through the coursework, it was easy to pretty much not learn any of that useful stuff.. ever. Not before graduation at least.

pjc50 11y ago

It's a strange dichotomy. Programming in the real world has its theoretical side, its "craftsmanship" side, and its soft skills. It's entirely possible to get through a CS degree without learning craftsmanship, which is more amenable to a traditional apprenticeship structure.