5 ms·

Email encryption on Android and iOS becomes easy with the open source app Tutanota

33 points by bruce487 11y ago

klaustopher 11y ago
So, one can only send encrypted mails to other users of the platform? http://tutanota.uservoice.com/knowledgebase/articles/470724-why-does-tutanota-not-use-pgp http://tutanota.uservoice.com/knowledgebase/articles/470724-...
- johnd03 11y ago
  No, it works with anybody: http://tutanota.uservoice.com/knowledgebase/articles/470795-how-do-i-send-an-encrypted-email-to-an-external-re http://tutanota.uservoice.com/knowledgebase/articles/470795-...
  - hobarrera 11y ago
    Yeah, it emails a link to the third party to use their website to read the email. And you have to pre-share a password. It basically takes a dump on every standard we already have.
- darklajid 11y ago
  That link only talks about pgp/gpg, but yeah - their solution (haven't figured out the whole thing yet) seems to be "Send everything to our servers, others can get it from there using our app (or a web application)". No gpg/pgp relation. No IMAP support¹. They do support SMTP if a) the recipient is not on the same platform b) you're sending an unencrypted mail (only possible to external users anyway) If you send an encrypted mail to an external user, they basically just get a link or something. "View the real mail here"? I believe the intentions are good, but that's trying to solve the problem by killing off most things I require for my mails, unfortunately. ①: http://tutanota.uservoice.com/knowledgebase/articles/470761-can-i-retrieve-my-tutanota-emails-via-imap-to-anot http://tutanota.uservoice.com/knowledgebase/articles/470761-...
eloy 11y ago
This will never work. I'm more enthusiastic about DIME.[1] I think SMTP will not (and cannot) ever be replaced. But if there will be DIME support in Postfix and Thunderbird, I can give it a chance. [1] https://darkmail.info/ https://darkmail.info/
- alfiedotwtf 11y ago
  For submission, there's RFC 4468.
alfiedotwtf 11y ago
The NSA Planned to Hijack Google App Store to Hack Smartphones [1] Given that software updates are automatic (unless you manually turn them off etc), how can you trust an app if you can't trust the platform? 1. https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/05/21/nsa-five-eyes-google-samsung-app-stores-spyware/ https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/05/21/nsa-five-eyes-...
- mike_hearn 11y ago
  Two things. Firstly, Android checks app signatures and as far as I know the market app doesn't have any ability to override that. It can do a few privileged things like skip showing the permissions screen, but I think the OS still wants to see correct signatures. So even if the app store was hacked the phone itself might reject a bogus upgrade. Secondly, that slide is more like some junior GCHQ guy noodling around, I think. It is old and dates from a time before Google used SSL for everything. I doubt it's possible to do via purely technical attacks now. Thirdly, it'd almost certainly be easier to attack the developer laptop/workstation to steal the signing keys directly than attack Android head on. I plan to do some research this summer into splitting the RSA signing keys used by Android apps to allow for threshold signed online updates for Android and maybe iOS.
  - alfiedotwtf 11y ago
    > It is old and dates from a time before Google used SSL for everything Their budget is $52.6 billion and (as you say, the slides are old) they have lead time too. Let that sit for a moment.
  - zyx321 11y ago
    The only way to change the signing key for an app (on an unrooted phone at least) is by completely uninstalling it (which deletes the main data directory) and then installing a new version. In fact, Google lost the key for their OTP authenticator app at one point, requiring all users to install the new app manually before they would receive updates again.
    - 11y ago
coffeecheque 11y ago
Slightly OT, but what's the likelihood of Apple/Google integrating PGP natively into the OS? I know iPhone has S/MINE - but is PGP too much to ask?
- higherpurpose 11y ago
  For PGP you can try: https://whiteout.io/ https://whiteout.io/ https://lavaboom.com/ https://lavaboom.com/
- JustSomeNobody 11y ago
  I don't know about Apple, but I doubt Google will because of the features they've been putting out lately (i.e.: Now cards for flights, etc based on emails).
hiamnew 11y ago
I have to be honest, I have given up on pgp. From what I know there is no way to have encrypted communications between more than two people. So why even bother pursuing the dream of everyone using it if there is such a roadblock in the way of common communication habits.
- agd 11y ago
  I believe PGP does support multiple recipients. The symmetric key is encrypted and included for every recipient.
  - hiamnew 11y ago
    Ouch, I did not expect that. Nice!
- rockdoe 11y ago
  PGP absolutely supports multiple recipients. As the other reply says, the (small) symmetric key is encrypted separately with the public key of every recipient.
snksnk 11y ago
A good alternative is Countermail [https://countermail.com/ https://countermail.com/] (probably more secure than Tutanova, to the extent possible for these services) and an app such as K-9 Mail.
JustSomeNobody 11y ago
I thought it was already easy on Android with K-9 and APG.
- mike-cardwell 11y ago
  APG is discontinued. You should use OpenKeychain now instead - http://www.openkeychain.org http://www.openkeychain.org - OpenKeychain does everything APG did, more, and has a much nicer interface. It even lets you use a Yubikey as a PGP smartcard over NFC so you don't have to store your PGP keys on your phone - https://grepular.com/An_NFC_PGP_SmartCard_For_Android https://grepular.com/An_NFC_PGP_SmartCard_For_Android The one thing that K-9 misses, which is pretty major IMO, is PGP/MIME support. It only works with inline PGP.
  - JustSomeNobody 11y ago
    Thanks for the information, I'll look into those. Yeah, I don't like that PGP/MIME isn't supported, but I manage.
owly 11y ago
Don't forget https://protonmail.ch https://protonmail.ch They are working on iOS and Android apps, and from what I've seen they have the most promise of making encryption simple for ALL.
dkyc 11y ago
"Swiss Data Security Our email service safeguards user data with strict privacy protections and our secure datacenter facility hidden inside a Swiss granite mountain." Now that is comforting.
dzlobin 11y ago
I might be missing something but the source of the actual iOS app doesn't appear to be on their Github.

33 points by bruce487 11y ago

So, one can only send encrypted mails to other users of the platform? http://tutanota.uservoice.com/knowledgebase/articles/470724-why-does-tutanota-not-use-pgp http://tutanota.uservoice.com/knowledgebase/articles/470724-...

johnd03 11y ago
No, it works with anybody: http://tutanota.uservoice.com/knowledgebase/articles/470795-how-do-i-send-an-encrypted-email-to-an-external-re http://tutanota.uservoice.com/knowledgebase/articles/470795-...
- hobarrera 11y ago
  Yeah, it emails a link to the third party to use their website to read the email. And you have to pre-share a password. It basically takes a dump on every standard we already have.
darklajid 11y ago
That link only talks about pgp/gpg, but yeah - their solution (haven't figured out the whole thing yet) seems to be "Send everything to our servers, others can get it from there using our app (or a web application)". No gpg/pgp relation. No IMAP support¹. They do support SMTP if a) the recipient is not on the same platform b) you're sending an unencrypted mail (only possible to external users anyway) If you send an encrypted mail to an external user, they basically just get a link or something. "View the real mail here"? I believe the intentions are good, but that's trying to solve the problem by killing off most things I require for my mails, unfortunately. ①: http://tutanota.uservoice.com/knowledgebase/articles/470761-can-i-retrieve-my-tutanota-emails-via-imap-to-anot http://tutanota.uservoice.com/knowledgebase/articles/470761-...

eloy 11y ago

This will never work. I'm more enthusiastic about DIME.[1] I think SMTP will not (and cannot) ever be replaced. But if there will be DIME support in Postfix and Thunderbird, I can give it a chance. [1] https://darkmail.info/ https://darkmail.info/

alfiedotwtf 11y ago
For submission, there's RFC 4468.

alfiedotwtf 11y ago

The NSA Planned to Hijack Google App Store to Hack Smartphones [1] Given that software updates are automatic (unless you manually turn them off etc), how can you trust an app if you can't trust the platform? 1. https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/05/21/nsa-five-eyes-google-samsung-app-stores-spyware/ https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/05/21/nsa-five-eyes-...

mike_hearn 11y ago
Two things. Firstly, Android checks app signatures and as far as I know the market app doesn't have any ability to override that. It can do a few privileged things like skip showing the permissions screen, but I think the OS still wants to see correct signatures. So even if the app store was hacked the phone itself might reject a bogus upgrade. Secondly, that slide is more like some junior GCHQ guy noodling around, I think. It is old and dates from a time before Google used SSL for everything. I doubt it's possible to do via purely technical attacks now. Thirdly, it'd almost certainly be easier to attack the developer laptop/workstation to steal the signing keys directly than attack Android head on. I plan to do some research this summer into splitting the RSA signing keys used by Android apps to allow for threshold signed online updates for Android and maybe iOS.
- alfiedotwtf 11y ago
  > It is old and dates from a time before Google used SSL for everything Their budget is $52.6 billion and (as you say, the slides are old) they have lead time too. Let that sit for a moment.
- zyx321 11y ago
  The only way to change the signing key for an app (on an unrooted phone at least) is by completely uninstalling it (which deletes the main data directory) and then installing a new version. In fact, Google lost the key for their OTP authenticator app at one point, requiring all users to install the new app manually before they would receive updates again.
  - 11y ago

coffeecheque 11y ago

Slightly OT, but what's the likelihood of Apple/Google integrating PGP natively into the OS? I know iPhone has S/MINE - but is PGP too much to ask?

higherpurpose 11y ago
For PGP you can try: https://whiteout.io/ https://whiteout.io/ https://lavaboom.com/ https://lavaboom.com/
JustSomeNobody 11y ago
I don't know about Apple, but I doubt Google will because of the features they've been putting out lately (i.e.: Now cards for flights, etc based on emails).

hiamnew 11y ago

I have to be honest, I have given up on pgp. From what I know there is no way to have encrypted communications between more than two people. So why even bother pursuing the dream of everyone using it if there is such a roadblock in the way of common communication habits.

agd 11y ago
I believe PGP does support multiple recipients. The symmetric key is encrypted and included for every recipient.
- hiamnew 11y ago
  Ouch, I did not expect that. Nice!
rockdoe 11y ago
PGP absolutely supports multiple recipients. As the other reply says, the (small) symmetric key is encrypted separately with the public key of every recipient.

snksnk 11y ago

A good alternative is Countermail [https://countermail.com/ https://countermail.com/] (probably more secure than Tutanova, to the extent possible for these services) and an app such as K-9 Mail.

JustSomeNobody 11y ago

I thought it was already easy on Android with K-9 and APG.

mike-cardwell 11y ago
APG is discontinued. You should use OpenKeychain now instead - http://www.openkeychain.org http://www.openkeychain.org - OpenKeychain does everything APG did, more, and has a much nicer interface. It even lets you use a Yubikey as a PGP smartcard over NFC so you don't have to store your PGP keys on your phone - https://grepular.com/An_NFC_PGP_SmartCard_For_Android https://grepular.com/An_NFC_PGP_SmartCard_For_Android The one thing that K-9 misses, which is pretty major IMO, is PGP/MIME support. It only works with inline PGP.
- JustSomeNobody 11y ago
  Thanks for the information, I'll look into those. Yeah, I don't like that PGP/MIME isn't supported, but I manage.

owly 11y ago

Don't forget https://protonmail.ch https://protonmail.ch They are working on iOS and Android apps, and from what I've seen they have the most promise of making encryption simple for ALL.

dkyc 11y ago

"Swiss Data Security Our email service safeguards user data with strict privacy protections and our secure datacenter facility hidden inside a Swiss granite mountain." Now that is comforting.

dzlobin 11y ago

I might be missing something but the source of the actual iOS app doesn't appear to be on their Github.