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It's one thing to say that people are deluded when they act against their own interests. But how do you think someone would arrive at the conclusion that riotin
by jcromartie 11y ago
It's one thing to say that people are deluded when they act against their own interests. But how do you think someone would arrive at the conclusion that rioting would be helpful? Where do you think they got these "romantic reasons" that are actually bad for them?
- Kalium 11y agoIn short? Wishful thinking. Those I know who hold to that notion do so because they find riots emotionally satisfying. To them, a thing that is emotionally satisfying must also be objectively productive, because it's incomprehensible that such strong emotions could not move witnesses to share, support, and solidarity. That, and a bunch of radical pablum about how getting people talking about your cause is the same as actually effecting change and similar. Something about symbolic violence and making a statement usually crops up around this point. Occasionally someone argues that destruction of property is non-violence. The human capacity for finding a way to ideologically justify whatever it is you want to do is truly remarkable. In retrospect, I was a lot more tolerant of this flavor of toxic radical thought when I didn't live in an area they regard as a great place to go smashing things.
- jcromartie 11y agoI get the sense that you think that rioters are "just bad people" or something like that? Is that correct? They are genetically predisposed or something?
- Kalium 11y agoI don't think they are "just bad people". I think they're people behaving badly because they have deluded themselves into thinking that they can violence their way to justice. Some of them have their hearts in the right place, more or less, except for the whole "Yeah! Senseless violence!" thing. Others just like smashing things. I've also seen people get very upset when confronted with the links I showed you. It's a treasured article of faith in some circles that riots produce desirable social change.
- mentat 11y agoThe language of delusion is not really productive here. Almost everyone is delusional in one area or another. Wanting justice, needing (or "needing") to take action, and those actions being productive are all separate. People doing irrational non-productive things pretty much all the time. Expecting that to be different or change, especially with the current state of education is, I would say, delusional.
- Kalium 11y agoWhat would be a preferred nomenclature? "Self-induced inconsistency with observed reality", perhaps. The delusion is not the goal. The delusion is the notion that violence will achieve the goal because said violence is emotionally satisfying.
- stephengillie 11y agoProtests without riots have been shown to be an ineffective agent of social change. If you don't bring rioters, nobody cares.
- Kalium 11y agoMight I suggest you follow the links I have supplied?
- mentat 11y agoI'm not sure why you assume that people are or will be rational. It's not about their rationality or what's productive. It almost never is for "normal" people.
- Kalium 11y agoI run on the assumption that people who loudly and publicly declare that they seek a particular goal are interested in what will actually advance that goal. If that isn't a valid assumption - and I suppose it's possible, but I would like to think not - then there's a very different conversation to be had.