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Read my other comment and read The Communist Manifesto, by Karl Marx. Obama's actions and Marx's document align quite well. I'd love for you to show me how th

Read my other comment and read The Communist Manifesto, by Karl Marx. Obama's actions and Marx's document align quite well. I'd love for you to show me how they don't. I also have a question for you. Do we only call people Marxists once we're all properties of the state, residing in gulags, or dead? Or, do we see the slow movements in that direction early on and stop them? I personally prefer the latter.

dragonwriter 11y ago
> Read my other comment and read The Communist Manifesto, by Karl Marx The Manifesto of the Communist Party was written by Marx and Engels, not Marx as sole author. > Obama's actions and Marx's document align quite well. I'd love for you to show me how they don't. Okay, sure. the Manifesto's most direct policy prescriptions are contained in Chapter 2 [0], where after acknowledging that particular steps will differ from country to country, it states that "[n]evertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable" and lists the following items: > 1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. Where has Obama advocated anything like this? > 2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. Certainly the US has something like this, with a suitably loose definition of "heavy", but that pre-dates Obama. > 3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance. Where has Obama advocated anything like this? (Proposing actually paying capital gains tax on the appreciation of capital assets transferred in inheritance -- e.g., treating transfer in inheritance like a transfer -- is far from abolition of all rights of inheritance.) > 4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. Again, where has Obama advocated anything like this? > 5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly. The US, obviously, has a central bank, but that's not an Obama innovation. > 6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State. Certainly, the Obama Administration has supported some tweaks of existing communication and/or transportation regulation, but, again, where is there anything substantially like this? > 7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. Again, where? > 8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. Same question as above, where has Obama advocated this? > 9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country. The first part of this is a process that private industry has led in this country, but where has Obama proposed anything to advance either part? > 10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c. Much of the first two sentences of this had been advanced in the US prior to Obama, and is fairly (with "present" in the 1848 sense!) uncontroversial. Where has Obama done anything on the third? Where -- with specifics from both Obama policies and the Manifesto -- has Obama, in short, done anything that shows his actions "align quite well" with the Manifesto's agenda? [0] https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-m...
- innocentoldguy 11y ago
  Let me answer your questions, dragonwriter. First of all, I am aware than Engles was involved, but it was Karl Marx who slaved over this document and ideology to the detriment and devastation of his wife and children. It was Marx who was the self-centered megalomaniac behind this concept, and he who pictured a future where people would worship him as a god. Engles's most important contribution was really money. 1. As I said, Obama has used the state to block the development of domestic energy over vast amounts of land. Furthermore, Obama upholds the notion of public domain, which means our property rights are subject to the whims of the state. How does this NOT fit? Just because the state hasn't confiscated all land yet doesn't mean this shouldn't be a concern and a type of things to come. 2. I never said Obama introduced the progressive tax in America. I said he fully supports it and has expanded it. His obsession with taxing the rich is well documented. I don't believe Marx was the original inventor of all of his ideas either. Does a pre-existing art doctrine prevent us from pointing to the state of our union today and accurately declaring what is wrong with it? 3. Confiscating wealth via a death tax, regardless to what extreme you do it to, places us directly on the path of Marxism, does it not? How can you claim that the federal government's confiscation of up to 45% of your wealth upon your death isn't just slightly under halfway there when it comes to Marx's goal? If I only forcibly molested you half way, would you feel as if it hadn't happened at all? 4. You have obviously never worked abroad. The federal government absolutely rapes you in taxes, especially if you are a software engineer, successful sales person, or an executive and make more than the standard overseas deduction. Furthermore, have you ever lived overseas and held money in a financial institution? Obama got the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act passed in 2010, which gives the federal government the ability to order foreign financial institutions to provide information to the IRS regarding Americans' offshore holdings. Then, if they feel like it, the federal government can confiscate your off-shore property. Fits quite nicely into number 4, really. 5. Yes, number five was going on before Obama. I never said it wasn't. However, Obama embraces this centralization and accelerated it via Dodd-Frank, which drastically increased the federal government's control over financial firms; as I already mentioned. 6. Regarding communications, Obama wants to revive the "fairness doctrine." He upped the Patriot Act's spying on American citizens for the last 6 years. He has expressed hostility towards free speech on numerous occasions. Regarding transportation, Cap & Trade. He also keeps trying to push America into the government's high-speed rail system. He keeps trying to compel Americans into "green transportation" by attempting to get laws passed that outlaw things like coal, pipelines, domestic energy production, etc. Has he centralized it yet? No. But, I don't believe those things happen overnight. They are slowly introduced in order to minimize backlash. Is that what Obama is doing and are we on that path? I believe so. 7. Obama has made every attempt to inject the federal government into the health care industry, housing industry, auto industry, and energy industry. Again, he has us on the path. 8. What do you think Obama's ramping up of federal employees in the IRS, Americorps (or "corpse," if you're Obama), and his Serve America Act are? 9. Obama used the Department of Housing and Urban Development to relocate people in order to make America more evenly distributed, racially speaking. Additionally, Obama's cap & trade would severely limit our ability to commute. This has a very high potential for forcing people to live in urban hubs. 10. The purpose of this point in Marx's Communist Manifesto was to control what people think. Don't you believe that is what Common Core is all about? In his State of the Union Address in 2012, Obama called for more funds and new federal education programs, and talked about mandatory federal schooling for everyone under 18. Also, what purpose does Obama have for wanting to give Associate degrees away for free? Did that answer your questions? In conclusion, I never said that Obama implemented all of the Marxist problems we now have. I simply said, and proved, that he supports Marxist ideals. Just because we have had other Marxists in our country's leadership before now doesn't negate the fact that Obama is indeed a Marxist. This isn't a talking-point. It is simply a fact.

dragonwriter 11y ago

> Read my other comment and read The Communist Manifesto, by Karl Marx The Manifesto of the Communist Party was written by Marx and Engels, not Marx as sole author. > Obama's actions and Marx's document align quite well. I'd love for you to show me how they don't. Okay, sure. the Manifesto's most direct policy prescriptions are contained in Chapter 2 [0], where after acknowledging that particular steps will differ from country to country, it states that "[n]evertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable" and lists the following items: > 1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. Where has Obama advocated anything like this? > 2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. Certainly the US has something like this, with a suitably loose definition of "heavy", but that pre-dates Obama. > 3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance. Where has Obama advocated anything like this? (Proposing actually paying capital gains tax on the appreciation of capital assets transferred in inheritance -- e.g., treating transfer in inheritance like a transfer -- is far from abolition of all rights of inheritance.) > 4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. Again, where has Obama advocated anything like this? > 5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly. The US, obviously, has a central bank, but that's not an Obama innovation. > 6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State. Certainly, the Obama Administration has supported some tweaks of existing communication and/or transportation regulation, but, again, where is there anything substantially like this? > 7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. Again, where? > 8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. Same question as above, where has Obama advocated this? > 9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country. The first part of this is a process that private industry has led in this country, but where has Obama proposed anything to advance either part? > 10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c. Much of the first two sentences of this had been advanced in the US prior to Obama, and is fairly (with "present" in the 1848 sense!) uncontroversial. Where has Obama done anything on the third? Where -- with specifics from both Obama policies and the Manifesto -- has Obama, in short, done anything that shows his actions "align quite well" with the Manifesto's agenda? [0] https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-m...

innocentoldguy 11y ago
Let me answer your questions, dragonwriter. First of all, I am aware than Engles was involved, but it was Karl Marx who slaved over this document and ideology to the detriment and devastation of his wife and children. It was Marx who was the self-centered megalomaniac behind this concept, and he who pictured a future where people would worship him as a god. Engles's most important contribution was really money. 1. As I said, Obama has used the state to block the development of domestic energy over vast amounts of land. Furthermore, Obama upholds the notion of public domain, which means our property rights are subject to the whims of the state. How does this NOT fit? Just because the state hasn't confiscated all land yet doesn't mean this shouldn't be a concern and a type of things to come. 2. I never said Obama introduced the progressive tax in America. I said he fully supports it and has expanded it. His obsession with taxing the rich is well documented. I don't believe Marx was the original inventor of all of his ideas either. Does a pre-existing art doctrine prevent us from pointing to the state of our union today and accurately declaring what is wrong with it? 3. Confiscating wealth via a death tax, regardless to what extreme you do it to, places us directly on the path of Marxism, does it not? How can you claim that the federal government's confiscation of up to 45% of your wealth upon your death isn't just slightly under halfway there when it comes to Marx's goal? If I only forcibly molested you half way, would you feel as if it hadn't happened at all? 4. You have obviously never worked abroad. The federal government absolutely rapes you in taxes, especially if you are a software engineer, successful sales person, or an executive and make more than the standard overseas deduction. Furthermore, have you ever lived overseas and held money in a financial institution? Obama got the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act passed in 2010, which gives the federal government the ability to order foreign financial institutions to provide information to the IRS regarding Americans' offshore holdings. Then, if they feel like it, the federal government can confiscate your off-shore property. Fits quite nicely into number 4, really. 5. Yes, number five was going on before Obama. I never said it wasn't. However, Obama embraces this centralization and accelerated it via Dodd-Frank, which drastically increased the federal government's control over financial firms; as I already mentioned. 6. Regarding communications, Obama wants to revive the "fairness doctrine." He upped the Patriot Act's spying on American citizens for the last 6 years. He has expressed hostility towards free speech on numerous occasions. Regarding transportation, Cap & Trade. He also keeps trying to push America into the government's high-speed rail system. He keeps trying to compel Americans into "green transportation" by attempting to get laws passed that outlaw things like coal, pipelines, domestic energy production, etc. Has he centralized it yet? No. But, I don't believe those things happen overnight. They are slowly introduced in order to minimize backlash. Is that what Obama is doing and are we on that path? I believe so. 7. Obama has made every attempt to inject the federal government into the health care industry, housing industry, auto industry, and energy industry. Again, he has us on the path. 8. What do you think Obama's ramping up of federal employees in the IRS, Americorps (or "corpse," if you're Obama), and his Serve America Act are? 9. Obama used the Department of Housing and Urban Development to relocate people in order to make America more evenly distributed, racially speaking. Additionally, Obama's cap & trade would severely limit our ability to commute. This has a very high potential for forcing people to live in urban hubs. 10. The purpose of this point in Marx's Communist Manifesto was to control what people think. Don't you believe that is what Common Core is all about? In his State of the Union Address in 2012, Obama called for more funds and new federal education programs, and talked about mandatory federal schooling for everyone under 18. Also, what purpose does Obama have for wanting to give Associate degrees away for free? Did that answer your questions? In conclusion, I never said that Obama implemented all of the Marxist problems we now have. I simply said, and proved, that he supports Marxist ideals. Just because we have had other Marxists in our country's leadership before now doesn't negate the fact that Obama is indeed a Marxist. This isn't a talking-point. It is simply a fact.