5 ms·

Here's some therapy: eat right, work hard, exercise, turn off the TV, join some sort of group, practice some sort of spirituality, perform public service, get a

by andyl 11y ago

Here's some therapy: eat right, work hard, exercise, turn off the TV, join some sort of group, practice some sort of spirituality, perform public service, get a full night's sleep, be generous, accept the ups and downs in life, go for it, live in balance. That will be $150.

rrss1122 11y ago
Heh, if you can actually get people to do all of that, it will be $150 well spent.
- andyl 11y ago
  It's all about execution. :-)
eivarv 11y ago
Yeah, that's not how mental illness works. However, your statement is pretty indicative of the confusion and lack of knowledge surrounding the phenomenon (and illustrates one of the prerequisites for stigma).
- andyl 11y ago
  I've had quite a bit of experience with therapy, and from my experience it is mostly a quack profession. In my experience mood stabilizers and therapists are a band-aid that is mostly about getting you hooked and dependent and compliant. Managing your mood, maintaining focus and purpose is tremendously difficult - I can attest. I've had ups and downs, tried a bunch of methods, and watched my peers and family struggle. I really believe that the recommendations I made are better for most people than therapists and mood enhancers. Having said that - if therapists and mood drugs work for you, I applaud you. Try everything and do what works for you. Note: mood/focus/purpose is not mental illness - it is part of normal human experience. Real mental illness - schizo/paranoid/anxiety stuff - can literally kill and requires chemical/medical intervention. But most people don't have hard-core mental illness, and I believe most would get more benefit from diet/temple/gym/sports league than a therapist couch.
  - lexicalscope 11y ago
    I already commented, but I'll make one more point here: I don't disagree that there are a lot of steps you can take to improve your mental health: exercise, diet, etc definitely help. The problem though with saying most of the problems people have just require them to focus is that no one can measure other people's internal struggle/pain. We don't have _really_ objective tests on this yet, we have inventories where you check a box. Because of this, it honestly comes down to what someone can handle. So this is the problem: I totally agree, if those things you said work for you great, but saying that most people don't have hard-core mental illness is really bad is really bad to say. In a world where it's already hard for people to come forward that have this problem saying something like this is going to push people into the dark more - telling them that causes thought patterns like: "well, most people don't have this, so I probably don't, it's really unlikely, and you know, my friends have down periods too, I bet they've cut themselves before, it's probably fine". I know from experience. PLEASE don't tell this to people, don't promote this line of thought, don't promote anything like this. If you want to communicate what I think you're trying to say, maybe this is a better way to put it: "For me, I've found exercise and diet have helped me feel better, but if someone feels like things are out of control they should see a doctor and see where they should go."
    - andyl 11y ago
      "saying that most people don't have hard-core mental illness is really bad is really bad to say." But it is true - most people struggle with ups and downs but don't have hard-core mental illness. For you, drugs and therapy help. Wonderful! Do what works for you.
      - lexicalscope 11y ago
        Just because something is true does not make it useful or good to say, depending on how it is presented. If you said "most people with chest pain don't have heart trouble, they should just lay down and get the hell over it" that is probably not something useful and promotes people ignoring problems. If you, on the other hand, say something like "chest pain isn't always bad, and most chest pains won't be a heart attack, but you should always treat something that potentially serious seriously" that is not bad. My concern is not that you are saying something not true, my concern is that what you're saying is dismissing what is potentially a serious concern, and that people with these problems should not have more obstacles insofar as other people saying they probably don't have problems. There is a huge stigma around this already - throwing up more information telling people to ignore their problems is not helping anymore than telling people with chest pain to "man up" helps them. It took me a lot of time to get over the fact that everyone around me told me I didn't have a problem, and a lot of things in my life that were really bad could have been avoided if I had not had people saying exactly what you're saying.
briandear 11y ago
Mental illness doesn't actually exist, it's just because people aren't doing enough public service? Spend some time in a psych ward, look at some PET scans and perhaps run a gene-chip or two and maybe you'll want to revise your "prescription." True mental illness isn't "cured" by living in "balance." There's an actual biochemical process happening. Your suggestions though do reveal the depth of ignorance amongst a large percentage of people, so thanks for that. However, I would argue that there is potentially an over diagnosis of mental illness, especially among residents of the Upper West Side. True mental illness isn't some mild social anxiety or a fear of public speaking. True mental illness is something that, when left untreated, will destroy your life. Unfortunately the Woody-Allen crowd seems to think of therapy as analogous to a trip to the salon which belittles the more serious struggles of the severely depressed, bipolar and other chemically-based illnesses. "Mother issues" or "fear of commitment" stuff isn't mental illness any more than the majority of the gluten-free cult actually represents sufferers of Celiac disease.
lexicalscope 11y ago
Yeah - I have bipolar disorder, and this is why people with mental illness don't speak up, because we're afraid of this attitude. When you have to be on mood stabilizers and go through a lot of therapy to begin to not blame yourself for everything that your illness caused just because it's invisible it can be a real setback to tell people and have them say "Well you don't look sick..." Same thing, ironically, happens to people with other chronic and non-visible illnesses: lupus, fibromyalgia, etc. "You don't look sick - get off your ass" - meanwhile their immune system is eating them from the inside out. Anyways - to the original point - therapy can be very effective in treating anxiety and depression, but we should also not completely eliminate the possibility of SSRIs, MAOIs and related drugs for controlling depression. The reality is that depression is often multifaceted and the biological and psychological components of it are mixed in ways we don't entirely understand. I know a lot of people that have required an antidepressant to be able to _deal_ with therapy, and then were able to discontinue slowly after they went through therapy. People with more serious mental illnesses (waves) can be helped through counseling, but often will be dependent on medication for the rest of their lives - but counseling for these people can still result in a net benefit for society, as often we can contribute quite a bit (and many of us are very high functioning!) if we are given the opportunity. Anyways - to parent - thanks for illustrating everything that is wrong with our society's thinking about mental illness. I will literally link people to your comment when I have to explain in the future :). In all seriousness though, please get educated on this or study it more, I am hoping you're just ignorant on this topic and not malicious or mean.

by andyl 11y ago

rrss1122 11y ago

Heh, if you can actually get people to do all of that, it will be $150 well spent.

andyl 11y ago
It's all about execution. :-)

eivarv 11y ago

Yeah, that's not how mental illness works. However, your statement is pretty indicative of the confusion and lack of knowledge surrounding the phenomenon (and illustrates one of the prerequisites for stigma).

andyl 11y ago
I've had quite a bit of experience with therapy, and from my experience it is mostly a quack profession. In my experience mood stabilizers and therapists are a band-aid that is mostly about getting you hooked and dependent and compliant. Managing your mood, maintaining focus and purpose is tremendously difficult - I can attest. I've had ups and downs, tried a bunch of methods, and watched my peers and family struggle. I really believe that the recommendations I made are better for most people than therapists and mood enhancers. Having said that - if therapists and mood drugs work for you, I applaud you. Try everything and do what works for you. Note: mood/focus/purpose is not mental illness - it is part of normal human experience. Real mental illness - schizo/paranoid/anxiety stuff - can literally kill and requires chemical/medical intervention. But most people don't have hard-core mental illness, and I believe most would get more benefit from diet/temple/gym/sports league than a therapist couch.
- lexicalscope 11y ago
  I already commented, but I'll make one more point here: I don't disagree that there are a lot of steps you can take to improve your mental health: exercise, diet, etc definitely help. The problem though with saying most of the problems people have just require them to focus is that no one can measure other people's internal struggle/pain. We don't have _really_ objective tests on this yet, we have inventories where you check a box. Because of this, it honestly comes down to what someone can handle. So this is the problem: I totally agree, if those things you said work for you great, but saying that most people don't have hard-core mental illness is really bad is really bad to say. In a world where it's already hard for people to come forward that have this problem saying something like this is going to push people into the dark more - telling them that causes thought patterns like: "well, most people don't have this, so I probably don't, it's really unlikely, and you know, my friends have down periods too, I bet they've cut themselves before, it's probably fine". I know from experience. PLEASE don't tell this to people, don't promote this line of thought, don't promote anything like this. If you want to communicate what I think you're trying to say, maybe this is a better way to put it: "For me, I've found exercise and diet have helped me feel better, but if someone feels like things are out of control they should see a doctor and see where they should go."
  - andyl 11y ago
    "saying that most people don't have hard-core mental illness is really bad is really bad to say." But it is true - most people struggle with ups and downs but don't have hard-core mental illness. For you, drugs and therapy help. Wonderful! Do what works for you.
    - lexicalscope 11y ago
      Just because something is true does not make it useful or good to say, depending on how it is presented. If you said "most people with chest pain don't have heart trouble, they should just lay down and get the hell over it" that is probably not something useful and promotes people ignoring problems. If you, on the other hand, say something like "chest pain isn't always bad, and most chest pains won't be a heart attack, but you should always treat something that potentially serious seriously" that is not bad. My concern is not that you are saying something not true, my concern is that what you're saying is dismissing what is potentially a serious concern, and that people with these problems should not have more obstacles insofar as other people saying they probably don't have problems. There is a huge stigma around this already - throwing up more information telling people to ignore their problems is not helping anymore than telling people with chest pain to "man up" helps them. It took me a lot of time to get over the fact that everyone around me told me I didn't have a problem, and a lot of things in my life that were really bad could have been avoided if I had not had people saying exactly what you're saying.

briandear 11y ago

Mental illness doesn't actually exist, it's just because people aren't doing enough public service? Spend some time in a psych ward, look at some PET scans and perhaps run a gene-chip or two and maybe you'll want to revise your "prescription." True mental illness isn't "cured" by living in "balance." There's an actual biochemical process happening. Your suggestions though do reveal the depth of ignorance amongst a large percentage of people, so thanks for that. However, I would argue that there is potentially an over diagnosis of mental illness, especially among residents of the Upper West Side. True mental illness isn't some mild social anxiety or a fear of public speaking. True mental illness is something that, when left untreated, will destroy your life. Unfortunately the Woody-Allen crowd seems to think of therapy as analogous to a trip to the salon which belittles the more serious struggles of the severely depressed, bipolar and other chemically-based illnesses. "Mother issues" or "fear of commitment" stuff isn't mental illness any more than the majority of the gluten-free cult actually represents sufferers of Celiac disease.

lexicalscope 11y ago

Yeah - I have bipolar disorder, and this is why people with mental illness don't speak up, because we're afraid of this attitude. When you have to be on mood stabilizers and go through a lot of therapy to begin to not blame yourself for everything that your illness caused just because it's invisible it can be a real setback to tell people and have them say "Well you don't look sick..." Same thing, ironically, happens to people with other chronic and non-visible illnesses: lupus, fibromyalgia, etc. "You don't look sick - get off your ass" - meanwhile their immune system is eating them from the inside out. Anyways - to the original point - therapy can be very effective in treating anxiety and depression, but we should also not completely eliminate the possibility of SSRIs, MAOIs and related drugs for controlling depression. The reality is that depression is often multifaceted and the biological and psychological components of it are mixed in ways we don't entirely understand. I know a lot of people that have required an antidepressant to be able to _deal_ with therapy, and then were able to discontinue slowly after they went through therapy. People with more serious mental illnesses (waves) can be helped through counseling, but often will be dependent on medication for the rest of their lives - but counseling for these people can still result in a net benefit for society, as often we can contribute quite a bit (and many of us are very high functioning!) if we are given the opportunity. Anyways - to parent - thanks for illustrating everything that is wrong with our society's thinking about mental illness. I will literally link people to your comment when I have to explain in the future :). In all seriousness though, please get educated on this or study it more, I am hoping you're just ignorant on this topic and not malicious or mean.